I hope I don’t get kicked out: How do you train a 3-yr old GSD who does not care for treats?

[juanmz28]

Yes, we hail her with praise as a reinforcement every time she does very basic things.
She is a rescue and we’ve had her for 5 weeks.
Everything I read assumes the dog likes treats and will eat treats.
Ours doesn’t care for them.

What to do?!

How can we train her on recall, or heeling, or sitting? Honestly: nothing fancy.

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@juanmz28 Might be that she's not fully trusting u yet. Shes three years old, she's had a lot of time w other people, she may still be bonding and trusting u.

Recall can be hard to achieve imo, esp w a new dog. So I'd focus on trust and bond building to start w, like "touch" & "watch me".

Check out the 3 3 3 rule for rescue for context of where ur dogs at.

How is she in general? Confident? Outgoing? Timid? Shy?

 

[expatjohn]

@xjasonsteelex This! I thought my rescue wasn’t treat motivated for 6 months. And then he suddenly was, because he knew he was safe.

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@expatjohn Also often dogs have been scolded for taking food, so are scared of taking treats. and over corrected for getting things wrong, making them scared to try and commands.

 

[juanmz28]

@xjasonsteelex Thank you - I didn’t think about her having been scolded for food.

Come to think of it, when she was first dropped at our house, she’d scurry away if any of us opened the fridge.

Thank you…

BTW, we’ve been calming her down and giving her food anywhere in the house so she is not afraid or stressed.

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@juanmz28 Keep up the good work!

I always think trust and ur bond is most important and needs to come b4 obedience tasks, bc they only walk beside us or come when called to please us, and they only want to please us if they love us.

 

[juanmz28]

@expatjohn Thank you: good to know - at least there is hope.

Aw man .. many more months to go ))

 

[juanmz28]

@xjasonsteelex I read the 3 3 3 rule, but I have to say we’re quite a bit overwhelmed that I forget about them.

To answer your question about her general behavior.

First off, we don’t think she was ever properly taken care of and may well have been one of those COVID dogs where she was adopted at the start of the pandemic then given away as life resumed to normal. When she was dropped at our house, she had a rope for a leash, no bedding, no food, no toys. No judgement of previous owners, but that made things more difficult as we had to discover what she liked, not like, food. To this day, we are not sure about feeding. She won’t eat quality kibbles and barely accepting selective wet food. She will eat raw chicken drums, barely cooked ham, and raw ground beef. We try to sneak mushed veggies and brown rice, but we struggle feeding her (so expensive !!!).

She definitely is not shy or timid - for sure.

She is definitely outgoing too …. BUT

I’ve noticed that she is more careful around men than women - especially if the man is wearing a cap or a hoodie. She will bark at tall men who try to befriend her. She HAS NEVER BARKED EVER in our house since she came.

On the other hand, I don’t know that she is confident.

A couple of weeks ago, during a very pleasant and calm walk (calm, here, means no pulling but fast paced walk ), we were attacked by 8-10 toy dogs whose irresponsible owners were not holding on to the leashes in a public unfenced park.

No dogs were hurt.

I of course started yelling and the owners came rushing to contain their dogs.

She FREAKED and ran and dragged me. I still held to the long leash and sprained both ankles until I finally stopped her to calm her down and hug her and praise her.

Long story short: Since then, she is erratic any time we go on that street. Sometimes she will be fine but more often than not she tries to get out of her harness and pulls so damn hard that I find myself trying to contain myself so she doesn’t think I am angry at her.

Now does this make her confident? How can I help her regain confidence or build confidence? How can I undo trauma, if that incident traumatized her.

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@juanmz28 I think if u yelling freaked her put (understand ur yelling at other owners) and her reaction to done men means she is under confident and doing her best at most times to hide that. Knowing raised voices freak her that much... U can't react to idiot other owners in the moment just resolve to call authorities. And focus on ur dog in the moment, minimise her reaction. Get her walking again, moving helps them not get stuck.

I think it's abt taking it slow, not expect too much (recall off leash on public no way) patience and just let her fully know and trust u. Always being confident when walking or working w her (if u start worrying /freaking out so will they). Honestly once uve had her 5 months I'm sure ull be seeing a different dog.

 

[rexy]

@juanmz28 Toys. Tug ropes and balls. Things to get them to chase. Recall is about you being more interesting than anything else.

Get a long lead, throw a ball a short distance, get them to come back and when they do offer the tug rope excitedly with praise and play tug for a bit. Release and go again until the idea of coming back to you is too exciting to not do it. Hope this helps!

 

[juanmz28]

@rexy Thank you!

I just ordered the tug rope.

Funnily enough: She doesn’t care for balls.

 

[expatjohn]

@juanmz28 Does she take treats in your home with zero distractions around her? Then’s she’s food motivated, but is just overwhelmed in places with distractions. Take it slow, your most important focus should be getting her settled and safe, and then you can gradually add in distractions during training. Work on recall in the home first: Total Recall by Pippa Matheson has a great method to follow that starts at home.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@juanmz28 GSD's are hardwired to please. Give her a job- find a toy she likes which you can also interact with, and use play time with that as her reward for doing things. If it isn't treats, it's toys. Also look at the treats- are they high enough value? Bust out the good stuff, like little hot dogs or cheese cubes, see if those work.

 

[gdssldier]

@juanmz28 You need to build a relationship with her first. What are her likes and dislikes? What is her preference for her daily routine? How does she relate to you best? What do you enjoy about her presence, other than how well she may or may not comply with your requests?

Once you can answer those questions, you will be much better able answer to us how you would be able to give this dog something pleasing as a consequence for behaviour that you want to increase. If you don't know the individual animal, you will struggle to figure out why broad species-category generalisations aren't lining up for her easily.

 

[heavenhome]

@juanmz28 If she loves pets, that's acceptable as a reward too. That's all my border collie needed. It's just that most dogs respond to treats better. You also might need more high value treats like real pieces of bacon (broken into small, small pieces).

 

[smod]

@juanmz28 There’s already lots of great responses here, but one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is environmental rewards.

For example, I taught my puppy to auto-sit at doors and wait for a release before he was allowed to go out the door (to prevent him from trampling and/or dragging me with him off the icy porch). Going outside was the reward for sitting nicely. It can be other things, too! It could be getting to greet humans/other dogs (only if your dog finds that rewarding), access to a favourite spot or being allowed up on the furniture.

This won’t work for everything, but it can be a super high value reward depending on the dog/what you use.

 

[natk]

@juanmz28 Does she eat her dog food? Use that. Is there food left out all day or fed at specific meal times? If she's not hungry, she's not going to have food drive. Try training using her meals. Also, you should be feeding her meals by hand anyways for awhile so she knows where the food comes from and it builds your relationship.

Also GSD are working dogs and innately bred to have high prey drive which means they should go crazy over toys. Find out what kind of toy she likes. Tug? Ball? Let that be your reward.

I have a rescue malinois. And he wasn't that interested in playing with me at first. It was very discouraging but eventually something clicked and he figured out that it's more fun playing with me than chewing the toy by himself. So don't be discouraged if she isn't super interested at first. Just keep trying. It wasn't until the 4 month mark that he was engaging with me to play. Also get toys that ONLY come out when you want to play. Those are YOUR toys and she's only allowed to play with them with you. And always have two of the same kind. You don't want to reach your hand in while she's chewing on a tug. Just get the same tug and present it and she'll want the one you have in your hand as opposed to the one she's chewing on.

In the first 6 months, playing with your dog is way more important than teaching sit, stand, stay. I understand if you need to for any safety reasons but she should be on a leash for any environments that you deem not safe anyways. Play, play, play. Dogs are some of the only animals that will play until the day they leave this earth as are humans. We never grow up. Take advantage of that and enjoy your dog and just play without so much focus on obedience.

And with the play will come trust and security. Then recall won't be so hard becuse youll be the most fun thing ever because of all the playing. And for heeling. Well that's way more advanced and I wouldn't even in be that mindset right now if I were you.

Remember to be patient. I struggle with that all the time with my Mal with training. I get exited and want to move him past a training point and moving too fast ALWAYS fails and sets me back.

 

[juanmz28]

@natk This is some awesome, expert-level advice.

Thank you!

Apparently we’re doing it wrong and have toys laying around all over the place.

On it.::

 

[natk]

@juanmz28 You're welcome! You can have toys laying around that she can play with of course. But I wouldn't shower her with toys. They end up losing value. And have a pair of identical toys that ONLY come out when you guys play together. If she takes the tug and chews all by herself, present the toys twin. If you're done playing, those special toys are also done. Absolutely, positively ALWAYS let her win at tug. Even act it out. Pretend it's difficult for you. Grunt. When she pulls, fall to your knees (if you're able to) and pretend she pulled so hard that it brought you to your knees. This will help with her confidence and her trust. If you always let her win, she will want to play. It's what well socialized dogs do with each other. For awhile, every tug is a win. She tugs, let go. Then you can increase to every two tugs and so on. As her confidence builds, she will hold on to the tug, her bite grip will become stronger and it'll be more fun for the both of you guys.

If she accidentally bites you during play, swallow your pain down. Dogs bite during play. Yelling at a dog for doing a dog thing while playing will break a dog down. If it hurts, wear gloves. Remember theres a difference between an accidental bite because she miscalculated grabbing the tug and a bite that's aggressive. One should be corrected and not the other. Just do a little yelp and continue playing.

 

[gdssldier]

@natk Please read the sub rules and posting guidelines, particularly with respect to trainer recommendations.