I’ve become a bad dog owner. They have become uncontrollable

C

canuckgramz

New member
I have 2 medium-large-ish sized dogs, and life issues and not being in the best of mental state have made it difficult to cope, hence why I let things slide. I’m embarrassed. I’ve really f*d up, I know that, so please be nice. I also have no support system, no access to support, so I don’t know what to do or where to turn.

This is also long and all over the place, so for that I’m sorry.

Inside the house, they are good as gold, but outside, I’m scared what they’ll do. They will listen to recalls, commands inside , but outside is just a different story. They are different dogs.

Usually now, I just leash them for 5 minutes to cross a road and let them into some fields for a long run, because the pulling has just become too much mentally, physically. I also shamefully have quickly given up, because I know the pulling just doesn’t stop, no matter how hard I have tried before.

Last night I realised the severity of it when I tried to walk them, and I just could not control them. It became so dangerous. A 15 minute journey took and hour or so. I’m scared to take them out around people or cars at this point to try again. I don’t want them or anyone getting hurt.

Let’s call them D1 and D2.

Last night, D2 pulled non stop, lunged at passing cars, cried and struggled like a maniac when I stopped in an attempt to try and stop them from pulling. D2 was constantly biting D1s leash. I barely had the strength to contain D2, let alone both of them. I was almost pulled off my feet repeatedly. It just would not stop. My hands are completely swollen and burning red as a result, and find it hard to use them properly.

D1 got loose and ran into the road twice, refusing recall the first time. D1 used to be so well behaved, and I walked D1 on the leash fine before I had D2. D1 also walked fine with my previous dog who passed. That dog would walk by my side with or without a leash.

It seems D1 has picks up on D2s behaviour, and it has now become a battle between them to see who can pull the hardest.

I just really don’t know what to do here. I need help.
 
@canuckgramz Damn, sorry to read this. I don't know what the correct answer is, but have you considered walking them only one at a time for a bit to correct their bad behaviour outside? Maybe if they relearn to walk properly they can be good together. I would be very strict about how they walk with you: only at your side and no flex line.

If someone thinks this is a bad idea, feel free to correct me.

And maybe get some gloves to protect your hands.
 
@julesgules Thank for your reply. Yes, I have tried this. D1s behaviour does quickly improve in 20 or so minutes, and almost back to how it was previously. D2s does not get any better when alone. D1 progress seems to go straight down the drain as soon as D2 is there.

But the thing is that I need to walk them together. They are confining me to my house otherwise. I just can’t take them anywhere, other than some deserted fields.

I’ll also try to find some grip gloves. Never thought of that. Thanks again. :)
 
@julesgules I’ve watched many videos, ones suggesting stopping, or stopping and walking back whenever they pull, but that just doesn’t work with D2. D1 eventually understands again, but again, any progress goes straight out of the window when they are together.

They both wear a chest harness. D1 will wear a face harness sometimes, but D2 will refuse a face harness, and go completely nuts and rub her nose on the ground until it bleeds. She’s able to get out of one. Last night D1 just wore a collar because I couldn’t find her harnesses. That’s how she got loose.
 
@canuckgramz This is incredibly silly, but it is the only thing that's worked for my puller - I stop every time she pulls (every time) and then look away & sigh. It's a "calming signal", aka dog language for "chill out" (the book "On Talking Terms with Dogs" has more information on these). I started this a month ago after trying to reduce her pulling for 1.5 years and she is finally barely pulling anymore.
 
@canuckgramz I'm not a fan of chest harness, but sounds bad with the face harness /gentle leader. Have you tried getting him used to it inside?

What about leash walking inside?

Personally I like Beckmans Dog Training channel. A lot of it is about reactive dogs. Maybe you can use some of his methods.
 
@canuckgramz I agree with other comments that certainly for the mean time walking separately sounds like the best solution all round. Certainly for D1 if his behaviour improves so quickly on his own.

Then with D2, I would take things right back to basics. One of the good things about dogs is that whilst things may have happened outside of our control that have resulted in a bad behaviour, for the most part with consistency we can also turn things around.

I would look at what he's wearing for a walk. What type of lead are you using? Is he on a collar or harness? Does he have anything like a halti etc. I would optimise that if possible to give you the most control over him when he does pull.

Then I would start with training in the house, which it sounds like you have been doing a bit anyway. So get D2 to walk calmly on a lead in the house. Then in the garden if you have one where there are slightly more distractions and smells.

Then I would start doing some training where you go and sit by a road, could even be by the end of your driveway and reinforce calm behaviour in that situation. You could even do it at the end of the walk or after a big play session when he's tired out a bit, just spend a few minutes reinforcing if he's calm around cars, people walking by etc. That is rewarded.

Then slowly build that up on his walks, if he pulls, walk around in a circle every time. It may not work straight away, depending on how stubborn a breed they are, but basically unlike the stopping and pulling for them to come back every time, the walking in a circle almost redirects them. They learn over time that pulling just results in walking away from whatever is interesting, that actually the only way to go and explore is to calmly move in a direction and that sometimes there are things that can't be explored.

Are there any dog training classes or anything that would be accesible to you in your area? Or a trainer just to give you that bit of support for a short while?

I think overall I would remind you that you are not a bad owner. Things have gone a bit wrong, but find me any owner who hasn't had blips along the way. You are a human doing the best that they can in this crazy world. The fact that you care enough about it to try and do anything to fix it shows that you care.
 
@canuckgramz I have two dogs and I do not walk them at the same time without another person to help. They don’t behave well together and feed off each other’s energy. It’s also impossible for me to do any training with one if the other is there. So they go one at a time. It might take 2x as long, but it’s 10x more enjoyable.
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast Thanks for your reply.

I wish I had someone to help, but I have none, and no access to any.

Sure, I’ve tried it many of times separately, but the problem is training with D1 just goes straight out of the window when they are together. D1 makes some progress alone, but D2 never makes any whatsoever.

And that’s the thing, I need to have them walk together, not separately.
 
@canuckgramz Why do you need to have them walk together?

I get it, because my tiny demon children cannot be walked together because they think it's play time. Due to my own mental health concerns I let their training get away from me. They're mostly fine on their own, which is a different situation than yours.

I suspect why you need to walk them together is because when left alone they get destructive.

Please understand that I'm very sympathetic to that. If you have been struggling as much as I suspect you have been you probably don't have a place you can put D1 while walking D2 and vice versa.

Pick a room and make cleaning it your priority. I know that's hard, please believe me that I know, but you need to be able to confine one dog while you walk the other.

You don't deserve to feel this miserable and unhappy, you don't deserve to be so overwhelmed. This isn't a punishment. Things are hard because you are unwell.

If you can afford to throw some money at the problem it may be worth doing. I suspect you cannot, but just in case reaching out to a trainer, reaching out to someone who has experience with reactive dogs and can help you walk them, having one dog go to daycare once or twice a week so you can work with the other dog more one-on-one might be helpful. I don't know.

You do not deserve to feel this awful.
 
@canuckgramz You need actual human help and not just internet advice - like actual additional hands. These could belong to a trainer you hire or a friend or family member that is willing to help. In the absence of another pair of hands you will need a lot of time. In the absence of that would really strongly consider rehoming one or both dogs.

These dogs are both regressing in any training they once had. You need to stop walking them as a journey and start walking them as a training exercise- it doesn’t matter how far you go. This should always be separate until both dogs are pretty reliably under control (you don’t need perfection but your dog should be operating comfortably within their skills about 80% of the time or more so when you can do that for each you can start to bring them together). This will take 15-30 minutes of dedicated time for each dog working on heeling, understanding leash pressure, general engagement and impulse control. Imagine that the dogs will need the majority of their recent experience to be what you want to undo bad habits so this could take weeks or months before you’re walking them together again.

In the meantime the dogs will need to have their needs fulfilled in a way other than a walk. You cannot have them off leash without a recall in a public place. If they are safe for a dog park that could be an option although many dogs are not. You could rent sniff spots if that’s within your means to give the dogs some good running time, you could also use a flirt pole to get them running or some ‘find the treat’ games in the yard, a doggie treadmill… there are lots of options to get their bodies moving without a structured walk and you will need to use as many of them as your resources allow until you can use a walk to get their exercise again. All of these options present training opportunities too so unless you have a malinois or a border collie their mental stimulation needs will probably kind of take care of themselves with all the training you’ll be working on. If there’s not a lot of good decompressing options for exercise add in some good lick mats chews or other decompressing activities at home.

Nosework and obedience training can also help build the habit of moving with you calmly and not waterskiing to every activity.

Remember that these are habits your dogs have built. They are not bad dogs and you are not a bad owner. But it will take some time - you can’t walk into the woods 5miles and expect to get out in two. If you don’t have the extended time to devote to training two dogs separately you really will need support - you say you don’t have a support system but really think about what your resources are to get this back on track. Can you pay someone to help? Do you know someone who might foster one dog for a while and help with training? There are lots of ways to fix this and it can be fixed. It just takes a fair amount of human labor.
 
@canuckgramz Well they can’t walk together safely, and sorry, but you can walk them separately so sounds like an excuse. They’ll never improve together if the one dog is such an issue and they’ll continue to feed off each other. It sounds to me like they also need more than just a walk. If they’re consistently under stimulated both mentally and physically, you’ll never be able to properly train them. Can you do mental stimulation multiple times per day at home? Food puzzles, snuffle mats, nose work, games, etc. Feed their meals out of a food toy or snuffle mat vs a bowl. Puzzles and food toys are an outlet for the scavenging drive behavior, snuffle mats make them use their nose which is mentally exhausting for them. Working on drive outlets lowers anxiety. They should be mentally tired before attempting to walk them.
 
@canuckgramz Walk them separately till both can walk alone. It doesn’t have to be a permanent thing but keeping up the way you are WILL NOT change anything and it will only continue to get worse. Don’t have time to walk them both separately? Then you don’t have enough time for two dogs sadly. Even the most bonded dogs should spend time away from each other so they can learn how to be their best selfs without seeing the other’s bad behavior. You’ll be able to bring them back together at some point but till they are both train, they need to be walked separated. That’s just the way things are right now.
 
@canuckgramz Hey there pet parent friend.
So this is just my experience with a previous 100+ lb doggo. We got him at 4 yrs from the humane society so who knows his early years. This boy wanted complete control of our walks. Lunging and barking at other dogs uncontrollably.
So I used a 6’ leash with a body harness with a D-ring attached at the front below the head at the neck for redirection and a top back D-ring for our later trained dog walks.
Our early day walks first sign he didn’t listen I walked back to the house took the harness off and left him to sit 15 - 20 minutes to chill. It varied because I waited until he laid down believing he missed his walk opportunity and I went about my day type movements. This got shorter the closer we got to trained :)
Then I would try again. If he behaved the same way back to the house we went. After about a week I would only need to say no and start walking back towards home. Partway on the return I would stop tell him to sit stay and after about 2-3 minutes return to our walk. Letting him understand I was not going to tolerate his behaviour; I was the leader of the pack when we were out for our walk. From the very beginning of our training when he was doing it right he got tons of praise.
It took about 2-3 weeks repeating you need to behave on our walks. You need my okay to cross the street, you need to sit when commanded it’s not okay to bark at people and other dogs or we go home.
My husband never did get good walks with our dog but when I accompanied them he would regularly look to me for direction. They truly need our approval and affection. He was very excited when I would join them part way through their walk.
That boy lived to 17.5 yrs. We lost him going on over a year ago now and my heart is still heavy. Man oh man what a precious pet!
Hope you get to enjoy your dogs walks soon 🤗
Dogs are amazing ❤️🐾
 
@canuckgramz I would start with walking them separately. When they pull to go one way turn and go the other way. You may land up going in circles but eventually they will learn you aren’t going in the direction they want when they pull. We have two dogs and walk them separately. The walks are much more enjoyable and you can work on training when you have one dog.
 
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