I’ve been grooming for 5 years and my husband and I opened a business together though he does not have a background in dog grooming. He sees profit in dematting at excessively high fees and I am in the boat of forcing people to accept the haircuts they can maintain with regular appointments and effort at home while keeping them on a schedule that keeps the hair the length they want. Can I get some passionate responses to help me help him understand? Y’all are the sh*t, thanks!
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Humanity vs Vanity
- Thread starter rtubbs
- Start date
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- dog grooming
123456christian
New member
@rtubbs You are the groomer and get to decide what grooming you are willing to do. He can charge $100 an hour to demat, but that doesn't mean you have to provide that service.
He will not want to pay the bill if a dog bites you because of the pain of dematting (he is not putting himself at risk). If you get seriously injured, you will not be working for weeks, months, or even have to quit grooming all together.
Dematting a whole dog is painful and gives the dog a bad experience with grooming. This can make it harder for the owner to keep up at home as the dog will act out and not want to be brushed. So the owner doesn't brush, which leads to matted dog. Owner wants the dog dematted again, causing more pain and another bad experience. Dog gets aggressive for grooming. Dog might need to be sedated or fully anaesthetized for grooming, which is stressful and can be dangerous to do too often. It just creates a vicious cycle and the dog suffers at every step. If you just shave the dog, it's much kinder, the dog can recover from it better, and the owner might be motivated to keep the dog in better shape.
It may be worth offering a small discount or deal if owners being the dog in on a very regular schedule. It can be every 4-5 weeks (so once a month), and might not need a full hair cut each appointment. Do bath and tidy one month, full groom the next until the dog is at a length the owner wants, then monthly trims. This keeps the dog is good shape and hopefully comfortable with grooming, owner gets the fluffy look they want, you bring in a bit more money than the every 3-4 months the dog would be done otherwise.
If all else fails, when you get a dog that needs a full shave and get you a nice pelt from it, tell him you will do dematting if he brushes out the full pelt in 2 hours.
He will not want to pay the bill if a dog bites you because of the pain of dematting (he is not putting himself at risk). If you get seriously injured, you will not be working for weeks, months, or even have to quit grooming all together.
Dematting a whole dog is painful and gives the dog a bad experience with grooming. This can make it harder for the owner to keep up at home as the dog will act out and not want to be brushed. So the owner doesn't brush, which leads to matted dog. Owner wants the dog dematted again, causing more pain and another bad experience. Dog gets aggressive for grooming. Dog might need to be sedated or fully anaesthetized for grooming, which is stressful and can be dangerous to do too often. It just creates a vicious cycle and the dog suffers at every step. If you just shave the dog, it's much kinder, the dog can recover from it better, and the owner might be motivated to keep the dog in better shape.
It may be worth offering a small discount or deal if owners being the dog in on a very regular schedule. It can be every 4-5 weeks (so once a month), and might not need a full hair cut each appointment. Do bath and tidy one month, full groom the next until the dog is at a length the owner wants, then monthly trims. This keeps the dog is good shape and hopefully comfortable with grooming, owner gets the fluffy look they want, you bring in a bit more money than the every 3-4 months the dog would be done otherwise.
If all else fails, when you get a dog that needs a full shave and get you a nice pelt from it, tell him you will do dematting if he brushes out the full pelt in 2 hours.
@123456christian Omg I just want to hand him a pelt and tell him to brush it out. I know he’s just asking to understand so he can explain it to clients but I go through this talk every time I have to talk to a new client with another matted doodle they want brushed out. My goal as a groomer is to have a schedule full of dogs that book regularly at the haircut length they are able to maintain. For my newer groomers still taking clients, I encourage them and back them up to offer what’s best for the pup or refuse service. My husband is saying someone, somewhere in town will still offer the dematting and get paid for it but I don’t want to lower my standards for my clientele. I hope that someday, groomers will not offer dematting across the industry despite customer bullying or business owner decisions. I want to help normalize proper care during this doodle wave.
@rtubbs I won't demat a dog if it's going to take me more than 15, maybe 20 minutes. No one in my salon will, really. Maybe a half hour for a couple whose demat technique works more slowly than mine does (mine involves heavy use of my thinners most of the time). If people try to argue, they're offered 3 choices: they can take the dog and try a different groomer, they can take the dog home, brush it out themselves, and reschedule, or they can leave the dog here and it'll get shaved. Wanna guess what the percentage of people who leave the dog to get shaved vs choosing one of the other two options is?
@123456christian No, no deal. Never agree to dematting. For all the reasons stated, it's cruel, gives the dog a bad experience, etc.
thankfullness
New member
@rtubbs The type of clients that want you to demat a dog are not the type of clients you want to keep regardless of how much they want to pay. They are the ones complaining, sending you vet bills for hematomas, etc. You are the groomer, you know it's not a good idea. Just show him the endless posts of matted dogs on here and ask him if he wants your shop to be a grooming salon or a pain factory. Does he want to listen to dog whimper and cry because of how much it hurts? Maybe he needs someone to grab a big fistful of his hair and yank and yank and yank. No person who claims to love dogs would be willing to do this on a regular basis, in my opinion. I don't want the dogs I groom to hate me and be afraid. Aside from the increased risk of injury to you and the dog and the increased time. There is no way to justify intentionally causing any animal pain for the sake of hair.
@thankfullness That was one of my arguments! If they want to walk because we won’t put their dog through painful dematting, then I absolutely want them to get out of my shop. I like the clients that listen to what I’m saying and we agree on a schedule for their dog to stay the length they want going forward.
@rtubbs It's cruel to subject a dog to any more than a little de-matting. The owner has already proven that they won't maintain, and they'll have another chance as their dog's hair is growing back from the # 10 blade shave. Your husband thinks de-matting is a profit-maker? Inhumane. And hang on, he's never done any de-matting? His opinion is uninformed.
@rtubbs Dematting by brushing takes a lot of time. It's stressful/painful for the dog. The dog struggles which makes it take more time. It can lead to injuries for both you and the dog. It's not always viable either depending on the kind of matting.
Injuries mean vet visits, insurance, payouts, liability, upset clients, bad reviews, potential loss of business, etc. A single injury/vet visit can cost you big time.
Extra time spent on one dog means you process fewer dogs. That means less profit.
Corporate groomer here. I will brush out a dog if I think I can save the coat and it's not going to take all day. If the mats are too extensive/too close to the skin/too tight I'm not going to try. It's just going to piss the dog off for no reason and make them hate being brushed/groomed which just makes my job harder and it risks injury.
From a purely profit motive: Sure I can spend 4 hours dematting a single dog. Why would I? A demat fee isn't going to make up the money lost by passing up multiple appointments.
Why would I want to encourage problem clients?
Why would I encourage them to skip regular grooming to maintain their dog properly? Matted dogs are a liability and a huge time sink. I make more money by more frequent visits with dogs that are quick easy grooms.
I have a pair of doodles that come in twice a year heavily matted. They HATE being groomed. It takes several hours to process them in part because they struggle so much and we don't even bother trying to brush them out. It's a shave down every single time and it costs me a #10 blade each time. I have to block off half a day just to do one of these dogs. If the owners would bring them in more often and maintain their coat the dogs wouldn't have come to hate being groomed so much.
Honestly my life would be so much better if I could fire them as clients. It costs me money to groom their dogs. Yes I charge demat fees. I probably ought to charge a special handling fee too. It's still not worth it to me. We'd make more money with a more frequent grooming schedule and the dogs would be happier and take less time to groom.
Got a corgi that comes in sometimes that bites for any kind of dematting. I don't brush him out. It's shave or nothing. Some dogs I can save the tail/ears/face. Some dogs I can't. Ears are prone to hematomas so if the mats are tight(usually are) they get spot shaved out. If it's just one area and I can spot shave it and blend it with the rest of the body I do that. Going short on the undercarriage or shaving out a couple mats behind the ears or the butt isn't a big deal.
If the dog is heavily matted all over I'll use the longest clip comb I can that will go through it easily. If the mats are too tight/close to the skin it's a #10 shave down. There is no way to safely brush out mats like that.
Matting isn't healthy for the dogs. They're in pain and unhappy. It can lead to injury and illness. I've seen sores under the matting, rashes, irritation, hematomas, urea burns from all the pee stuck to their pelt. I've seen dogs that hate being brushed. They're afraid or outright aggressive to being brushed.
I can't tell you how many times I've had to clean up a matted dog and they are just so dejected and unhappy when they first come in. By the time they leave they're feeling SO much better. I like being able to help them but I'd prefer not to have to offer that kind of help in the first place.
I don't use dematting fees to make a profit. At best they'll help recoup some of your financial loss from the time/resources spent and I find the concept of profiting off someone else's misery to be abhorrent. I use them to discourage unwanted behavior in the owners. I do not brush out extensive matting because it's inhumane and I don't have the time.
If the client wanted something longer they should have brushed their dog out. I will tell them flat out your dog is matted and we're going to have to go short. Don't like it, find another salon. Politely of course.
If your husband wants to specialize in demats then appointments are going to take longer, you're going to have fewer of them, and he's going to have to charge a LOT of money to make up for the lack of volume. Frankly it's not worth it.
Injuries mean vet visits, insurance, payouts, liability, upset clients, bad reviews, potential loss of business, etc. A single injury/vet visit can cost you big time.
Extra time spent on one dog means you process fewer dogs. That means less profit.
Corporate groomer here. I will brush out a dog if I think I can save the coat and it's not going to take all day. If the mats are too extensive/too close to the skin/too tight I'm not going to try. It's just going to piss the dog off for no reason and make them hate being brushed/groomed which just makes my job harder and it risks injury.
From a purely profit motive: Sure I can spend 4 hours dematting a single dog. Why would I? A demat fee isn't going to make up the money lost by passing up multiple appointments.
Why would I want to encourage problem clients?
Why would I encourage them to skip regular grooming to maintain their dog properly? Matted dogs are a liability and a huge time sink. I make more money by more frequent visits with dogs that are quick easy grooms.
I have a pair of doodles that come in twice a year heavily matted. They HATE being groomed. It takes several hours to process them in part because they struggle so much and we don't even bother trying to brush them out. It's a shave down every single time and it costs me a #10 blade each time. I have to block off half a day just to do one of these dogs. If the owners would bring them in more often and maintain their coat the dogs wouldn't have come to hate being groomed so much.
Honestly my life would be so much better if I could fire them as clients. It costs me money to groom their dogs. Yes I charge demat fees. I probably ought to charge a special handling fee too. It's still not worth it to me. We'd make more money with a more frequent grooming schedule and the dogs would be happier and take less time to groom.
Got a corgi that comes in sometimes that bites for any kind of dematting. I don't brush him out. It's shave or nothing. Some dogs I can save the tail/ears/face. Some dogs I can't. Ears are prone to hematomas so if the mats are tight(usually are) they get spot shaved out. If it's just one area and I can spot shave it and blend it with the rest of the body I do that. Going short on the undercarriage or shaving out a couple mats behind the ears or the butt isn't a big deal.
If the dog is heavily matted all over I'll use the longest clip comb I can that will go through it easily. If the mats are too tight/close to the skin it's a #10 shave down. There is no way to safely brush out mats like that.
Matting isn't healthy for the dogs. They're in pain and unhappy. It can lead to injury and illness. I've seen sores under the matting, rashes, irritation, hematomas, urea burns from all the pee stuck to their pelt. I've seen dogs that hate being brushed. They're afraid or outright aggressive to being brushed.
I can't tell you how many times I've had to clean up a matted dog and they are just so dejected and unhappy when they first come in. By the time they leave they're feeling SO much better. I like being able to help them but I'd prefer not to have to offer that kind of help in the first place.
I don't use dematting fees to make a profit. At best they'll help recoup some of your financial loss from the time/resources spent and I find the concept of profiting off someone else's misery to be abhorrent. I use them to discourage unwanted behavior in the owners. I do not brush out extensive matting because it's inhumane and I don't have the time.
If the client wanted something longer they should have brushed their dog out. I will tell them flat out your dog is matted and we're going to have to go short. Don't like it, find another salon. Politely of course.
If your husband wants to specialize in demats then appointments are going to take longer, you're going to have fewer of them, and he's going to have to charge a LOT of money to make up for the lack of volume. Frankly it's not worth it.