How to Get Involved in Dog Shows?

[lumiere]

Hello! Not a question about breeding but I feel like this sub may be able to help me anyway. If it is not allowed delete it.

I want to eventually show and breed dogs. I found a breed I absolutely fell in love with called the Finnish Lapphund. This isn't a very popular breed. I didn't know this breed existed until I started looking through the AKC (should mention I am from America) registered breeds.

I want to get more involved with this breed and meet people who work with Finnish Lapphunds, but I haven't found anything nearby specifically about this breed.

It's okay if I can't get involved with this specific breed yet, but I would still love to get involved in dog shows. I want to find a community to keep up with different shows and news. There isn't a good "AKC" or even "Dog Show" subreddit. I was wondering if anybody had any ideas on how to get into and be apart of this community?

On a somewhat side note, I also posted a pole. Should dogs compete in dog shows before being bred? I would love to know your opinion. If you're interested in that you can go here.

Thank you!

Edit: I am going to look into a different breed. It will be very difficult to find a mentor close to me, so I may consider a similar breed that is more popular. I may still stick with the Finnish Lapphund but we shall see.

 

[preciousleslee]

@lumiere Find a breeder and have them mentor you

 

[lumiere]

@preciousleslee Would it be rude to ask them to mentor me even if I can't get the puppy until years from now?

I am currently in college and an apartment. I want to devote time to breeding and showing once I have a house and a steady job.

 

[preciousleslee]

@lumiere Absolutely they wouldn’t mind. Not all breeders are as open to mentorship, which is fine, because you don’t want to learn from people with shitty attitudes like that anyway. You want to learn from someone who actually gives a shit about newbies entering the breed.

I also have a rarer breed. Got a dog from one breeder as a pet. Good breeder, not my type of person in general because she’s incredibly social and I am not, but undoubtedly a good ethical breeder. Good dog too. Through that dog I met another breeder who I 110% clicked with. She’s basically an older version of myself, we absolutely get along perfectly. Spent the next 6 years mentoring with that second breeder I met, and managing to keep good relations with my first breeder too because she knew it wasn’t at all personal and she was retiring anyway.

In those 6 years before I had a dog from her, my mentor made it a point to have not just her be my sole teacher - but other breeders too. Not only did I attend whelpings and see puppies at super young ages before anyone else, but we’d also arrange days where other breeders would be present. On those days I’d do puppy evaluations or stud comparisons (once I knew enough to actually have opinions on stuff), and then my mentor and the other breeders would rip me a new one over my critiques and test my knowledge of the standard and the functionality of the dogs and the ethics of breeding. I went with my mentor for first puppy vet visits, OFA evaluations, c sections, AI appointments, etc. Not all the time, because obviously that’s too much time commitment for a normal person, but it was consistent and spread out over many years. This stuff, and still showing my other dog, gave me more than enough opportunity to become recognizable in the breed community.

I basically was her favourite puppy person despite the fact I had never taken a puppy from her. I was allowed to groom and handle her dogs at shows. I even was allowed to ‘steal’ any puppies she kept for days at a time to “socialize” in order to tame my puppy fever. I spent six years playing at being a breeder without any of the scary commitment stuff.

When I finally was ready for a puppy, I told my mentor, who cried at the news, because man was it a long time coming. I was immediately top of her waiting list, had pick of the litter (even though she herself wanted to keep the puppy I took), and more or less got to ask for whatever I wanted in the breeding contract. Even today she’s still a huge part of my life, I text her at least once a week if not more to talk about dogs and shows and what’s going on. She’s the first person I tell when my dogs do well at shows, and still the first one I call when one of my dogs so much as sneezes as I start to panic.

TLDR: A truly good breeder, one who’s actually worth your time, will be delighted to help you

 

[lumiere]

@preciousleslee That sounds like such a great experience. A great way to really be apart of the community. I do have a question though. The breeder I found is about 14 hours away from me, so even if I wanted to I couldn't be as involved as you. As far as I can tell (I'll keep looking) there aren't any breeders/showers in my area of my chosen breed. I can message the breeder and ask for online advice but in person stuff may be harder. If I can't find somebody in my area would it be smart to find a mentor of a similar breed? Of course it wouldn't teach me how to critique my breed but it could teach me how to show and challenges involving breeding. Is this a good idea?

 

[frankda4th]

@lumiere Lots of great advice already, but I'll add my 2 cents as someone JUST getting into breeding.

I started in sports with my pair of rescued mutts. My trainer has become my breeder and breeding mentor and I'll be bringing home my first breeding female dog in January. In the last year though, I've started handling her youngest pup and doing handling classes with her under a Westminster judge and professional handler (100% suggest if you can find someone). Through that, I've gone to conformation shows and met people, built contact lists, got my name out there. I'm doing GSD's so the competition is pretty high, but I've already managed a Best in Breed with the pup at only 8 months at the time in just 2 shows, so clearly the lessons have paid off (and she's a beautiful dog).

Even if your breeder is far away (14 hours is nuts, I'm only 14 minutes away from mine!), make a point to go to local and maybe slightly less local conformation shows. There may be other breeders there (check the schedule ahead of time, it should normally tell you), but better yet, you'll be able to start learning the points system (I'm still figuring that out), how things run, what patterns you'll need to learn, and you'll build contacts too. Check out the breed club and reach out to people. Contact other local reputable breeders in your area (even of other breeds) and go to their whelpings, ask them questions, watch their puppy tests, etc.

The dog world is almost completely built on who you know, so getting to know people is the place to start.

As for your poll, it depends. I would generally say yes, but that's for dogs who are bred for conformation. Other dogs like working line GSD's and other working breeds don't need to show, but should be health tested and proven in the tasks that they are being bred for (if it's a protection dog, the parents should both be highly titled in protection work or working with police or military for example). There are also some special cases too, where well known, good breeders can get away with breeding their dog solely on temperament and lineage rather than being proven in the show ring, but this is almost impossible for a novice breeder to accomplish (dogs also need to be health tested, but that's a given for a good breeder). My puppy's mother is the daughter of a Campos GSD and a Sonoma GSD (as an aside, start researching lineages and genetics!). She was bred to Timberline's Dust Bowl Dance twice now, based on temperament, some videos of her movement, and her lineage. She has never been in a show ring because she was born just before my breeder had a bad accident which made her unable to show her. Her daughter is the puppy that I've been showing and won the BiB with at 8 months against a champion. So, breeding withing having a proven dog can happen, but only in very specific circumstances with the right dogs.

 

[lumiere]

@frankda4th Thank you for your advice. You brought up a lot of helpful information.

You also made a good point about the pole. I didn't even think about bred working dogs. I did consider breeders that love the personality of brachycephalic breeds but want to breed them to make them healthier. Thank you for your input. I currently have a beagle mix. I may find a trainer and start training him for certain events. That could possibly help me meet more people. I also do plan to go to dog shows and watch. Hopefully that'll help me meet new people too. Thank you!

 

[mygisfy]

@lumiere So, when showing dogs, it's typically referred to as "conformation". The judge will evaluate the dog's structure against the breed standard, and the winners overall are the best examples of their breed. If you want to start showing dogs, look into the breed club for the specific dog you like. You can't just buy any dog- you need a very particular dog who's parents have proven their own structure. If nothing is local, you either need to travel, or pick a different breed.

 

[lumiere]

@mygisfy I'll look into the breed club for sure. I actually found a breeder that breeds and shows her dogs. Her goal is to breed them for showing and improve them. She has actually won best bitch and best in group with her dogs before. I haven't looked into her breeding practices yet. I would assume that she takes great care of her dogs though. She is about 14 hours away from me but I am willing to make that drive. There are not many Finnish Lapphund breeders but luckily she seems like a good choice

 

[mygisfy]

@lumiere Don't make that assumption. Champion dogs can be mistreated. You're going to need a mentor, which would mean traveling that far often. What drew you to the breed? If it's appearance, I'd reccomend looking into temperament.

 

[lumiere]

@mygisfy I make that assumption but I don't just stop at that. I know the signs of a good dog breeder. I plan on asking A TON of questions before I decide for sure. This is just a good start.

As of the breed, it is not just the appearance. First off, I love herding breeds personalities and energy so I started off looking into that specific group. The Finnish Lapphund is known as a very friendly, energetic, smart, good with other dogs kind of breed. That's exactly what I want.

I originally thought of an old english sheepdog (I love their bouncy personality) but I realized if I were to show this breed I would need to keep their coat long. I was originally planning on keeping it short with regular grooming but since I want to show I needed a different breed with a different type coat. I wanted a breed with a longer coat that I need to take care of but not to the extent of the old english sheepdog. The Finnish Lapphund fell into that category.

The only issue is that they're not very well known so it will be hard to get a mentor close to me.

 

[mygisfy]

@lumiere I'm glad you're well researched! It seems you're heading in a good direction. The Finish Lapphund is a Spitz dog, so if it doesn't work out, those types may be similar (though many are not similar in temperament). I'd also have to say they have a long double coat, so I'd imagine coat management is still difficult. If you're dedicated to this breed, you may just have to bite the bullet and work with this breeder 14 hours away. However, you can always learn from a different breeder, and assist them in showing their dogs, and then later get a Finnish Lapphund without needed a breed specific mentor.

 

[lumiere]

@mygisfy Thanks for the advice. I do think I'll look into different Spitz dogs but I may have to stick with the Finnish Lapphund. I want dog showing and breeding to be a big hobby that becomes a big part of my life. I have to find a dog breed I love. Personality and looks.

 

[mygisfy]

@lumiere Stick with the breed, just have a mentor of a different breed, preferably somewhat similar. The basics are the same for most breeds, so you can learn those from most anyone. When getting into breed specific breeding, you may be luckier finding a closer breeder. It'll give you time to cultivate the skills, understand whelping, puppy raising, etc.

 

[lumiere]

@mygisfy Thank you. I still want to look into the different types of Spitz breeds. I can day I've seen/know most of them but I think I should look into their personalities. I don't want to settle, so if a Finnish Lapphund fits perfectly for me I'll focus on them. If I find a different dog breed better suited that is more common that would also be nice. Thank you for your help!

 

[nadinepeony]

@lumiere You need to find someone who breeds well bred show dogs of a breed. There’s differences between for example a pet golden retriever and a show golden retriever. I know it may be frustrating to hear but you may want to consider a dog breed that is easier to obtain than the one you’re considering. If it is a show dog of the breed you get, then yes I would have it compete in shows before you breed, titles add value to their pup or pups

 

[lumiere]

@nadinepeony I have been considering a different breed. I think I'm going to look more into the Alaskan Malamute. There looks to be a good show breeder about 2 hours from me which is way easier than 14 hours. They also seem like great dogs. I want to look more into this breed and this breeder before I decide anything.

If anything I can establish myself with Alaskan Malamutes and later on in my life get a Finnish Lapphund. Still lots of things to consider but this might be what I have to do.

 

[nadinepeony]

@lumiere Understandable just make sure to do a Ton of research on the breeder you’re looking into

 

[lumiere]

@nadinepeony Of course. Thank you for your help