Has anyone used a backpack (e.g. K9 Sport Sack) for a large reactive dog?

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

I have a 50+ pound GSP mix that struggles with leash-reactivity toward other dogs, bikes, motorcycles, rodents, and more recently people. The plan was to send him to a board and train program since we live in a major city without the ability to gradually acclimate him to triggers, but he was just diagnosed with heart worm and is now on exercise restriction. This has, of course, made the reactivity even worse.

I purchased a K9 Sport Sack and so far haven't been able to get him in it, but I'm committed to figuring it out. Seems like a good way to get him out of the house without getting his heart rate up and maybe be able to keep the anxiety under control.

Does anyone have any success stories with larger dogs (and how did you get them in the pack in the first place)?

 

[stokinbusuk]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell Let him see the backpack and get used to the idea of it. You could even wear it when around him to reassure him it is nothing evil! Work slowly and gently and don't force him into it. You could try draping it across his back to let him acclimate. If you frequently carry him, perhaps trying with the pack on your front would ease his concerns. You may have to train this literally inch by inch! Reassure him and treat and praise every tiny success you have with this, every time.

Do you have any larger stuffed animals that would replicate him being in the pack? Pretend with it, if you do and reassure him 'the puppy' is just doing great! This puppy would be ideal!

Please read this information on the humane training of dogs before sending your dog to a board and train. There is also information on that page on choosing the right trainer for your dog.

Aversive training techniques and tools force your dog to obey by repressing and suppressing their behaviors and emotions - yes, it is fast and 'effective' - in the short term. In the long term, not so much and the behaviors and even frank aggression often appear. Positive reinforcement and fear free trainers allow your dog to learn the appropriate behavior by rewarding the desired behavior, not by punishing the so-called bad behavior. Punishing the bad behavior can reinforce negative thoughts in your dog's mind - he sees another dog and barks, gets shocked and the thinks seeing other dogs is bad, so the negative behavior is reinforced and then suppressed with punishment and pain.

Training takes patience, consistency and treats and praise. Lots of treats and praise!

There are excellent positive reinforcement trainers on YouTube that deal with the issues you are facing. Instinct Dog Behavior and Training has a series dealing with leash reactivity that should help you immensely, as will other of their videos.

Edited to change and add more information.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@stokinbusuk Thank you for this! Fortunately, we live in a large city and have a variety of options available to us for private training/boarding once it becomes an option again.

I have a genuine dilemma though... I've watched more positive reinforcement training videos than I can count at this point, but none of them seem to be in touch with the severity of the situation when you have a small person trying to handle a large reactive dog. They typically demonstrate with small dogs who are already calm or are very easily distracted by treats. I physically cannot walk my dog outside without some kind of "aversive" device (e.g. gentle leader) to keep him from ripping my arms off or pulling me down the stairs, and if I were to try to bribe him with a treat in these moments, it would just fall out of his mouth. It's a safety concern for me, for him, and for other people and dogs. Harnesses are a complete joke for serious pullers so anytime I see that suggested I don't feel like any of the recommendations that follow are going to be useful.

I truly feel lost lately because I also think it's inhumane to just avoid walking him because of the risk of crossing his "threshold"; he needs fresh air and stimulation every day, and I have to make sure he doesn't hurt himself or somebody else. You know what I mean?

BTW, I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to defend aversive methods... I'm just frustrated with all of the positive reinforcement material that only presents the easy cases and gives no actionable advice about how to handle a real public freakout. But I'm not giving up on it!

 

[relationshipwithgod]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell I’m not sure that the dog backpack will solve your problem. Some dogs, like mine, get more stressed when they are confined near their triggers (like they would be in a dog backpack). My dog didn’t enjoy being picked up at all at first; we had to train him slowly to allow us to do it. Also, are you capable of walking with a 50+ lb dog on your back? I’m an average size woman and I don’t feel confident I could do that for any reasonable distance.

It’s not inhumane to avoid walking a dog that goes over threshold so easily outside. The dog needs mental stimulation and exercise. You can get those inside. I see it this way: most dogs do enjoy walks and fresh air. However, it sounds like your dog is afraid of so many things that are common in a city that it’s not necessarily a pleasant experience for your dog or you. Instead it’s like running a gauntlet. You’re “surviving” the walk instead of enjoying it, and stressing out your dog. Instead, you could just do quick potty breaks at off hours to minimise risk of running into triggers while you work on desensitization training.

As for your issue of how to walk your dog without him yanking you down the stairs: can your dog loose leash walk inside? If not - I would start with that. Once the dog has indoor loose leash walking down and practiced, continue indoors but add distractors. Open a window. Play recorded distracting noises. Etc. Have a friend be in the home when you’re doing the training. Then you can escalate to outdoors but in a quiet environment (you might have to do this at weird hours, or on a quiet area).

If you truly can’t handle your dog on a leash without the head halter, then using the head halter is better than you falling down the stairs or letting go of them by accident outside. What you can do is use the head halter for now but practice the loose leash walking skills with a new harness/collar. The dog will associate the new skills with the new harness, and eventually you can phase the head halter out. I personally used a head halter with my dog for a few months before I phased it out, and I haven’t used it for over a year.

I would also talk to your vet about medication options if you haven’t already.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@relationshipwithgod Thanks for this! Yes, my dog can loose-leash walk flawlessly indoors and is very treat-motivated when not distracted. I will try to add stimulation inside to the extent possible as you suggested. I also like the idea of the special harness and have an extra sitting in the closet we could use for that purpose.

Regarding the backpack - the reason I thought it might be a good idea is because he tends to calm down immediately when picked up. We’ve done it when passing other dogs on the road, and if we do it before he starts to get worked up, he doesn’t react at all. His whole body just relaxes. So I’m thinking I could at least get him out of the house and greeting people and dogs in a lower-pressure situation for him. He has no problems with fear or reactivity unless he’s on a leash, at least in the time we’ve had with him.

As far as whether I’m capable… that remains to be seen! But part of this is that I want to get exercise myself and I’d rather take him with me than leave him at home.

 

[stokinbusuk]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell I hear you and sympathize. My guy is 80 pounds of pure muscle and prey drive and I trained him using only positive reinforcement, a ton of treats and military ops-level situational awareness! I am on the smaller side and am also older.

We had a very unpleasant encounter with an extremely nasty person and my guy changed in an instant. I took out a happy, well-socialized and 'bomb-proof dog'. I returned from that walk with a dog that lunged, growled and barked at everyone. It took patience and perseverance but he is now happily choosing to meet and greet people. I'm not saying it was easy or fast but it did work. He now wears a muzzle and will always do so for his protection. A well-fitted muzzle is not cruel for a dog. They easily accept wearing them with the correct introduction. Michael Shikashio is an expert on aggressive dogs and has a number of videos that might closer address your needs.

Edited to add:

In my efforts to rehabilitate him, I also normalized every single person my guy and I encountered. I made up stories about what each person was 'doing' and where they were going and related all this nonsense in a very calm, matter-of-fact manner. I also treated and praised every single time. Fortunately, I have the luxury of choosing to walk at times when we are less likely to be overwhelmed with people.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@stokinbusuk I have thought about the muzzle! Interesting (and very encouraging) to hear that it’s not considered an aversive tool. I’d like to see if we can get on without it because my dog hates anything on his nose, but good to know it’s an option if I have to go that route. I don’t think he has an aggression problem, but it’s all fear and anxiety-based. I’m 99% sure he wouldn’t bite if he was allowed to make contact with someone he was barking at but of course I’m never going to take that chance.

It’s so sad that a single bad encounter can cause such long-term problems. I wish there was a way to tell them they’re not “on-duty” and can just relax. That’s why I want to try the backpack; he’s able to calm himself down if we pick him up.

What would you do in situations where your dog wasn’t responding to treats, toys, jumping around, or any other attention-getting device? That’s where I’m stuck.

 

[stokinbusuk]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell There's the trick and where situation awareness comes in! You need to start distracting him before he goes over threshold. When you are out walking you always need a plan in order to escape, hide, cross the street or retreat the way you came. You can use bushes, fences or cars to hide behind or walk beside to block his view. Walk up a driveway to put distance between your dog and his trigger or just do a U-turn and go the other direction. Cross the street if it is safe to do so.

I used to joke that we could put several miles on just walking a single block with all the zigging and zagging across the street we did. I really wasn't joking about developing military op-level situational awareness! Which, actually people should develop regardless.

Two good articles you might be interested in are my dog is afraid of other dogs. And more broadly based is my dog is scared of everything.

Just found a video that might help. Teach your dog to ignore distractions. And another, teaching your dog to do a U-turn. and the dog is wearing jammies!

Remember that training needs to be consistent and continuing to keep the skills sharp.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@stokinbusuk This is the only way I've been able to walk him, and fortunately I've found a route where the streets are quiet enough to be able to zigzag without having to wait on traffic. I'm gonna take a look at all those resources you linked!

 

[booboo222]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell I understand your frustration, but here’s the rub: not every environment is actually conducive to the individual needs of each dog, and ethical handling is also about assessing if you are able to meet those needs within your current circumstances. It’s really important to go into your board and train with the mentality that the reactivity may just spike again when the dog is back in the stressful environment with you. You can use aversives to suppress the outward behaviour and accept having a dog operating at high levels of cortisol consistently just to stay in your home, but you do risk aversive fallout and behaviours over time become significantly worse.

I have a 70lbs reactive and high prey drive house horse in an apartment, 4kms from the city centre, in a hugely dog friendly neighbourhood. I can confidently say he never would have made any progress without the commitment to drive him for two walks a day out of our local area to industrial parks and reserves where it’s quiet and generally free from other dogs. He now shares elevators with other dogs happily and we can go months without a reaction (which are predictable and easily managed with a super short cycle to decompress these days). His idea of hell would be constantly hitting the streets with low visibility and no space to get away from oncoming dogs, why would I keep trying to push that onto him?

I’m not trying to insinuate you can’t provide for your dog or you aren’t doing your best in difficult circumstances; but as someone who works in rescue it just makes me sad to see people struggling so much to fit a dog they love so much into a lifestyle that isn’t working for anyone involved.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@booboo222 My dog is actually much easier to leash walk in the city than he is out in the burbs because squirrels are his biggest trigger (relatively speaking as it's difficult everywhere). There are days when I can get through a decently long walk downtown with few incidents, as long as I stay a few steps ahead of him and cross the street anytime another dog approaches. Then other days he seems extra frazzled, and I think that's where I need to dial it back and let him have some time off.

But I understand where you're coming from, and that's why our plan (until interest rates exploded) was to work toward buying a house with a fenced yard in the very near future. The shelter he came from wasn't exactly forthright about his reactivity issues so we've been scrambling to figure out how to make it work in the months before we can reasonably move. I'd never consider rehoming him over this; he was a part of our family from day one and we'll adapt in whatever way we have to to give him the best life!

 

[claire96]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell This might sound crazy but bear with me… I desensitized my Pyr from squirrels because I have like 20 in my yard and many come up to take nuts from my hands . I played squirrel videos on the tv, on my iPad when he was on my lap. I bombarded him. He watched with great interest at first, even doing the looking behind tv to see where it went, etc. Now he arks at them in the yard and does a mini-lunge but on our walks he barely notices them now. On our property he is guarding it, but off property squirrels are no longer an issue.

Also, do you have a driveway where you live you can practice outside where their are distractions once you master inside? I had a mastiff I would work to find parks and hiking trails that would be as empty as possible because I would have to wrap the leash around the tree to hold her when we had a bad situation (a large reactive dog walking past us sent her into a fit). I did learn how to nice,y guide her away from it. The BIGGEST thing I learned working with the trainer who worked almost exclusively with reactive dogs was to train myself. I would a possible situation coming up (or even just worry one might come up,) and that energy was going right down the leash to her. She picked up on my anxiety. She didn’t know it came from me worrying about her behavior in any given situation but think whatever was happening was making me anxious and she was going to fix it. We practiced a ‘walk away’ process in my driveway a lot until I learned to calm my breathing, heart rates tone of voice, body posture, etc. once I learned to control my own anxiety at the situation she also got better.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@claire96 I so wish I could do the TV thing but he doesn’t care about it at all!

I live in an apartment building with a back alleyway, but I can never be certain it will be clear. It’s the best option I have though so we’ve done some training sessions back there. It’s pretty successful until a rat appears! But that’s Chicago.

That’s a really good point about your emotional state influencing your dog’s stress… I try to be aware of it as much as I can but I’m not perfect. I think sometimes when I start to redirect him away from something he interprets the redirection in itself as a reason to get worried.

 

[danbear2023]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell My 110lb dog loves his backpack from Arcadia trail. I fill it with weights or water bottles and it helps him feel safer and have something to focus on when we’re walking and has helped with his attentiveness during training

 

[relationshipwithgod]

@danbear2023 I think OP is asking about putting the dog inside the backpack and carrying the dog on her back, not having the dog carry a backpack. But glad your dog likes carrying a backpack!

 

[danbear2023]

@relationshipwithgod Oh lol. I think my boy would break a backpack like that or break my back. That sounds super cool though!

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@danbear2023 I like this idea too! I haven’t bought one but I’m willing to try anything. I wonder if it’s breed-dependent; my parents have an Aussie that loves to wear a pack but I don’t know what to expect with a GSP/probably lab mix.

 

[danbear2023]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell Most breeds love to have a job! Wearing a backpack gives them something to think about and gives them a sense of purpose. It’s great mental and physical stimulation as they have to learn to maneuver with the pack while the weight tires them out. It’s also super cute! I think you should definitely try it and your dog will probably love it! I think the only dogs that shouldn’t are those with back problems. My dog loves his

 

[mizzd]

@onefootinheavenoneinhell A guy who started living with his mother in my complex has a very reactive/aggressive small/mid-sized chihuahua terrier mix, probably 20 lbs-ish. The dog seems to be quite aggressive and one encounter from a distance was enough to be put on my dog's perma-enemy list, so they hate each other. One day he started putting the dog in a k9 sac to leave the building and take the dog on the subway. Now, he's an odd person to begin with, and I don't think he has any clue about what to do with that dog, but when he walked by me and my dog with his in that pack, the dog went berserk and the guy had no way of controlling anything because it's strapped into his back and completely out of reach! He had to back into some scaffolding netting to keep the dog from falling out and him falling over. It was ridiculous, but fortunate that I got past him before the dog could get loose. It's not a good setup for a big reactive dog; you have no way of communicating or doing corrections once it's on your back. If you are a smaller person, it could be pretty dangerous with a flailing large dog in a bag on your back. This is just my observation from seeing an idiot try this, but he also was not doing any additional training to try to improve his dog's behavior either.

 

[onefootinheavenoneinhell]

@mizzd That’s a good point; you’re really stuck if it starts to go south for any reason.