Gentle leaders

[kyredneck]

I would like advice, please!

I have seen gentle leaders mentioned in a few posts and I want to give it a try.

I have 3 dogs:

1-husky mix 65 lbs 4 years old. She used to pull a lot, but as she has aged, she is better. However, she is not very biddable and under the right circumstances, she will try to slip out of her harness and bolt. Like when she sees a deer, and there are a lot of them.

2- Mal mix 80 lbs 3 years old. The only time she is good on a leash is when she is tired. She will not try to slip her harness, but she does pull. A lot.

3- beagle x American Bulldog 35 pounds 2 years old. He is generally good. Will pull a little if he is on a scent, but because he is small, it's easier to manage. He will get hyped up by dog 2 and also hypes up dog 2.

What do I AVOID when buying?

What are the best resources for learning how to train the dogs to use them?

Is there hope that once they are trained, they will one day do well in a harness?

Is there any benefit in training dog 1 and dog 3? EDIT FOR CLARITY: I mean training them on a gentle leader. I understand all dogs need to be trained their whole lives.

I know dog 2 will be hardest. Do I start with her, or with someone who will be easier? She is actually the most biddable. Dog 1 learns the fastest when she wants to. She can be frustrating though due to her independence. If you catch her in the wrong mood she is stubborn and won't work.

 

[vdenni]

@kyredneck IMO, most harnesses are a hindrance more than a help unless you actually want the dog to pull. Even no-pull harnesses don’t let you control the dog’s head, which tends to influence how well you can redirect their behavior in my experience. They also can adjust their gate to still pull and do damage to their muscles/ligaments. I’d pretty much never use one if I could help it.

You can give the gentle leader head collar a try, but note that most dogs really hate it and it takes a while for them to accept it without too much of a fight. Also, if they get it off even once, they will forever try infinitely harder to get it off again, so beware. There are plenty of online resources to show you how to properly introduce it.

Personally I prefer prong collars and feel the dogs do as well, but do what you are most comfortable with.

 

[kyredneck]

@vdenni Thanks. I wouldn't mind if the pulling was just tension on the leash, which is where she is when tired. I mind it because she is sometimes at a full surge. She is big and strong. I have to counter balance her with my body weight. It makes going on a walk not very enjoyable for me, though she still has a blast LOL.

 

[mathek]

@kyredneck I avoided a gentle leader for my dog specifically because mine is also big and strong (and I am very petite) who had a tendency to lunge toward prey. If it was just constant pulling, I would be fine with using the gentle leader or another head halter; but the explosiveness of the lunging and the power/strength that my dog has, I got really worried about her neck muscles and felt she could really injure herself by pulling/tearing a muscle. So I went the prong route and am so glad I did for a multitude of reasons.

People tend to gravitate toward a gentle leader because prongs seem “scarier” or “meaner” to the dog, but sometimes prongs are the safest method. Just be aware and cautious of the lunging while it is on, but teaching leash pressure overall should mitigate the lunging and risk of injury.

 

[kyredneck]

@mathek Good to note. Thank you!

 

[emily99]

@kyredneck I went from prong to gentle leader for my strong 80 lb male pit husky shepherd mix. I wish I would have done it much earlier. He can still pull against the prong but I can control him with two fingers on the Gentle leader. It took him like two days to fully accept it. He hates harnesses of any kind. He will lunge at some other males and the gentle leader allows me to pull his head away easily where the prong probably just irritated him more. Tough to do a leash pop with prong when the dog is already exerting force on the leash.

 

[kyredneck]

@emily99 Thanks. Appreciate your input!

 

[dpardue]

@kyredneck I don't personally like the head halters as they keep pressure on the dogs nose even when they are not pulling (contrary to a slip or prong which only activates when the dog pulls). A lot of dogs stop pulling on them without any training because it is very uncomfortable.

I would do figure 8s and 180 turns until they know how to properly walk on the leash. They'll have to use their brains and that is often even more tiring than the actual walk. Also, if they often have the chance to pull it'll make it harder to train out of them even if you spend time training leash manners. Consistence is key!

Good luck!

 

[kyredneck]

@dpardue Thanks! I have tried a slip lead. I can use it correctly with the beabull, but I can't seem to keep it positioned correctly on the other two, so it doesn't seem safe.

 

[dpardue]

@kyredneck I get it!! It took me several to get one I actually liked. As others said a martingale might be worth it for your escape artist!

 

[kyredneck]

@dpardue Yep. I am going to try a harness with a waist strap first. My dogs don't wear collars because they treat them as handles for one another and I think the harness will be easier. But good to have a plan B.

They've always had coordinated harnesses. I think it is so cute! But safety and practicality needs to prevail! Lol

 

[bubbles78]

@kyredneck Hi! I mean this very kindly, but if all three of your dogs are problematic on a leash, it sounds like you're probably not taking the correct approach to leash training. I'd know, because I had the same problem! I have used gentle leaders in the past, and my general view is that they do stop the pulling/make it manageable... But they do not teach the dog what it is you want from them in terms of leash walking. That's up to you. I agree with the other posters that harnesses in general seem to encourage pulling.

Start inside, one dog at a time. If yours are like mine were? They'll go bonkers when they see the leash out of pure over excitement. First thing is to attach the leash, then treat when calm. Since mine almost never calmed at first, I'd treat him when he successfully performed a command he already knew (sit, down, shake, etc) all while just holding him on the leash. 5/10 minutes of this, then the leash comes off and then next dog goes through it. Repeat however often you can (2-3 times a day) for several days, until they no longer quite lose their minds just getting on the leash.

Then? Teach them to walk on a loose lead inside, where excitement is at a minimum. Move to your backyard or driveway next, and don't progress until your dog is really reliable at the previous stage. Watch videos for various methods to encourage your dog not to pull, and be consistent.

Hope this helps!

 

[ace111]

@bubbles78 This sounds like a very reasonable training approach to me. However, I don’t find it very practical, except you have either inside-toilet trained dogs or a garden.
I have neither, so I have to take my dog out three times a day, if she walks good on lead or not. I am glad I found the right tools for me to keep me sane

 

[bubbles78]

@ace111 Potty time is not the same as walk time. Best if you can communicate that to your dogs, and set the expectations for both. As I mentioned, the gentle leader works for making the pulling manageable, but it in itself does not train the dog what you want/expect on a walk. You, the trainer, have to do that.

 

[ace111]

@bubbles78 For me it’s the same (walk and potty time). Because there is no other reason for me to go outside with my dog, I have to bc of its needs.

And I don’t use a Halti, I use a prong collar as a passive management tool, it makes walks more enjoyable for me. And I train resp. reward her for good leash walking as often as possible, which isn’t much, because she won‘t respond to it anymore as soon as she gets stressed/anxious. So I rather manage than train, and that works for me so far.

 

[bubbles78]

@ace111 It sounds like you've got your mind set on your setup, so hopefully it's working well for you! As long as your dog is thriving as much as it can, then whichever way gets you there works.

 

[kyredneck]

@bubbles78 Helpful! Thanks!

I really only consider #2 problematic, so it would be wise for me to focus more attention on her, and i do need to start inside with her. When i touch a harness, she breaks into the steretypical 6 foot vertical leap mals do.We lost progress we made when I had a shoulder injury (not from dog walking LOL), and I feel like she has regressed to be worse than she was when I first got her. I think I am going to try to train her on a gentle leader, move #2 to a harness with a waist strap, and leave beabull alone for now.

 

[atm23]

@kyredneck I have no advice on gentle leaders, however:

If your dog slips out of her harness, it’s a dangerous one. Consider looking into a 3 strap one, also called anti escape. For sure switch from a H shape to a Y shape, if you used the former. Also consider clipping your leash to both a harness and a collar, so with a harness escape she is still leashed.

is there any benefit in training dog 1 and 3

Yes. There’s always benefit in training, no matter how old they are, how short of a period they stay with you, etc.

You should walk them all separately so the order of training doesn’t matter, and they can all learn at their own pace without being distracted by each other. Training 3 dogs at the same exact time frankly also just seems impossible.