Food recommendations for a complex situation?

[adebamigbe]

Hi all,

I’m looking for some input regarding my dog’s food situation. He’s an approximately 9-10 y/o Great Pyrenees mix who is also a retired service dog. He used to be incredibly active because of being a service dog and was nearly impossible to keep weight on but now that he has retired and is living the easy life of being a pet, he has packed on a few extra pounds (he should weigh around 80lbs ideally but was around 88lbs when he was weighed a couple weeks ago). He doesn’t look overly overweight but it is harder to feel his ribs and his tuck isn’t as well defined as I’d like it to be. I definitely don’t want him to have extra weight on his joints as he continues to get older as well, so we’re trying to address the weight issue before it gets even worse.

He is very sensitive to most proteins, which makes finding food he tolerates pretty difficult. He cannot tolerate poultry of any sort (chicken, duck, turkey, etc. are all out of the question) because he gets extremely itchy and has an extremely upset stomach whenever he eats anything with those types of proteins. He also doesn’t really tolerate red meats like beef or pork very well - he gets pretty itchy on those. He is relatively ok with lamb and more novel proteins like kangaroo and venison but does best with fish-based foods, hands down. I am really struggling to find a good food option for him at this point and it’s getting a bit frustrating.

He’s currently eating the Fromm Gold Coast Weight Management but he’s been itchy on it because of it having chicken liver in it. We had tried the NutriSource Grain Free Weight Management food before we knew that turkey was also a sensitivity of his and that didn’t end well when we found out his tummy hates turkey too. We’ve tried the Farmina Weight Management food but I wasn’t happy with the results and he didn’t care for the taste (he isn’t a picky eater but he took a lot of prompting to eat that food). We also tried the Country Naturals GF weight management food before we knew pork caused itching/upset stomach issues. We’ve also tried quite a few other foods that aren’t specifically for weight loss/control but have struggled to find one he actually thrives on and enjoys eating at the same time. That was before we realized/really began to identify his protein sensitivities, however, so now that we’re aware of those, I think we can find something better suited for him.

I am thinking we need to try to find a food he tolerates and eats consistently and just cut down on the amount he gets rather than try to find a specific “weight loss” food. I also want to rotate his diet to include a grain inclusive formula because I feel like some added dietary/soluble fiber might help his stomach settle more. Ideally, I’d like to find a formula that’s under 385 kcal/cup, fish-based, completely chicken free, gluten-free, and contains no corn, wheat, or soy products but that contains some sort of grain that’s easy to digest and is good for sensitive stomachs.

I’ve been looking at the Farmina Cod, Spelt & Orange Medium/Maxi formula but it’s right around 400kcal/cup which is a bit higher than I’d prefer. I’ve also been looking at the ACANA Sea to Stream wholesome grains formula which is around 370 kcal/cup but I’m not the biggest fan of Champion pet food/Mars/ACANA/Orijen as a brand overall but the ingredients are pretty decent and it meets pretty much all of our needs/requirements.

Do y’all have any other recommendations or ideas? Or any input between those two options?

Ideally, I’d like to find something that’s available locally at our favorite pet food store (Hollywood Feed) which will limit what we can get as well but we’re open to expanding our search to chewy or other places as well. TIA!

 

[bigred60]

@adebamigbe Royal Canin P/W Moderate Calorie. I used to sell this to tons of veterinarians and it worked wonders with many larger breeds including Pyrenees. It’s expensive but worth it.

 

[balkan]

@adebamigbe I would not cut back on regular (calorie) kibble because then you are also cutting back on nutrients. IMO, you should speak with your vet regarding options. There may be a novel or hydrolyzed protein weight loss formula available. Hills Science Diet also recently released a cod and insect formula. I'm not sure of the caloric content, but it might be worth looking into.

Edit: It's 385 kcal/cup. Has chicken fat, but that would not contribute toward chicken allergies.

 

[adebamigbe]

@balkan Our vet is not knowledgeable on diets/food options and just wants him on Purina which I really want to avoid and there isn’t really a formula out there from Purina that meets our needs anyway. I’ve been asking around and I haven’t gotten any other suggestions/good ideas from anyone so I feel like cutting back on a regular is probably our best option. We could definitely add in a multi vitamin if needed/recommended/deemed necessary by our vet due to the nutrient content. I’m just not sure what else to do.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@adebamigbe Purina has at least 2 prescription diets for sensitive systems and metabolic health??

 

[balkan]

@adebamigbe Purina is not the terrible pet food manufacturer it's made out to be. In fact, it's one of the only dog foods who meets WSAVA recommendations, which is pretty important and most likely why your vet would suggest it (or Hills Science Diet, Royal Canin, etc.).

I do think I made a very good suggestion above, if it's available to you.

Adding a multivitamin (unless it is recommended by your vet) is also probably not a good idea. Pet supplements, like dog food, are pretty unregulated and, sadly, with most out there, you will probably throw the nutritional balance off further.

Anyways, just my two cents. For what it's worth, I used to work in boutique pet stores recommending some of the brands you mention above. The amout of marketing and emotional blackmail out there surrounding dog food is very hard to see through. It took me a long time to wade through the BS. I now feed my dog a WSAVA recommended brand, and the formula I buy meets Small Animal Clinical Nutrition nutrient recommendations. I wish I had done that with my previous dogs.

 

[adebamigbe]

@balkan I never said Purina was a terrible pet food manufacturer so that’s putting word into my mouth :/ I know all about WSAVA and their guidelines/recommendations. I just said I’d prefer to stay away from Purina because I don’t feel they have a formula that actually meets our needs, despite having scoured through all of their products time and time again. We’ve explored a lot of different brands and options and it just seems like because it’s not a brand or food you’d personally feed, it’s automatically wrong to even consider, despite it meeting the criteria/needs of my individual dog. Not trying to be mean or rude but that’s how your comments are coming across…

I always have been a firm believer in “feeding the animal in front of you” rather than trying to shove every single animal into a tiny box of a specific brand or group of brands, whether that be boutique brands or WSAVA brands or anything in between. I’m trying to find something that will help my dog actually thrive and feel better in his later years of life rather than constantly having to deal with the itching, GI issues, hives, etc.

 

[turnkeyforex]

@adebamigbe My recommendation was going to be the purina pro plan sensitive skin and stomach salmon flavor - but if that doesn't work, either hill's insect, a prescription diet, or work with a vet nutritionist to make at home.

 

[balkan]

@adebamigbe I didn't say you said Purina was terrible. I was just trying to help. Not sure why you even posted since you don't seem open to recommendations.

Hopefully my post will help someone else, though.

Good luck.

 

[adebamigbe]

@balkan I’m absolutely open to recommendations, actually. I was primarily looking for input between the two foods I’d specifically mentioned because they’re easily available/accessible to me, within my budget, and meet our needs (at least they meet our needs on paper) so that’s why I’m hesitating about the one you had mentioned. It would be very difficult for us to actually get that food and maintain the cost of it as well.

I apologize if I came across as defensive or rude, I’m just desperately trying to find the right solution for my dog because he is such a special pup and is a pretty difficult case with all his sensitivities/issues.

Thank you for your input

 

[balkan]

@adebamigbe I understand how difficult it is to see your pet suffer when you're exhausting options to try to help. I've been there and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

The problem is that most pet food companies don't clean equipment properly in between formula runs (so even limited ingedient diets are not generally good for food trials), make formulas that don't meet Small Animal Clinical Nutrition nutrient recommendations for each dog's life stage (even if a WSAVA recommended brand - and nutrient imbalances have far-reaching consequences), encourage rotational feeding (which is generally not good for allergies and can exacerbate GI upset), and just plain take advantage of people who are only trying to do the best they can for the pets they love so much. Same with most over-the-counter pet food supplements. (I once had a brand rep tell me they made their glucosamine supplement at home in Canadian Tire buckets, which shook me.)

I don't have any more recommendations for you, and I wouldn't feed either of the two formulas you're considering, but I really do hope you find something that works for your dog.

 

[balkan]

Just adding this for anyone who might be interested.

It's so important to examine a formula's nutrients on a dry matter basis. Most of the time, you have to ask the company for this information, but sometimes it's listed right on their website.

At a minimum, compare the kibble's protein, fat, calcium, and phosphorus percentages ON A DRY MATTER BASIS to the standards set out in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition for your dog or cat's life stage.

Here are some of the nutrient recommendations for a "normal", healthy adult dog:

Protein: 15-30%
Fat: 10-20%
Calcium: 0.5-1.0%
Phosphorus: 0.4-0.8%
Sodium: 0.2-0.4%
Vitamin E: >400

There are different recommendations for the remaining life stages.

It's shocking to see how many fomulas are so off base when it comes to the nutrients, and even if they get it right with one formula, that doesn't mean it's the same across the board.

For most animals, nutrients (not ingredients) are what matter the most in pet food as they can affect gene expression and greatly contribute to the long-term health of your pet.

 

[kevint]

@adebamigbe You can ask your vet to set you up with a board certified veterinary nutritionist. There are some who do televet appoints, but usually they was done case history from the primary vet. They can advise on both kibble brands as well as home-made diet options that achieve the needs of complex issues like your pup.

 

[loveoftruth]

@kevint Op - try Tufts University online - they can consult with your vet and you.

 

[christianr_]

@adebamigbe I wouldn't choose either of those because they don't meet WSAVA guidelines. Royal Canin Multifunction Satiety+Hydrolyzed Protein is low calorie (234 kcal per cup) and the only protein is hydrolyzed soy protein.

 

[adebamigbe]

@christianr_ I can’t afford $150 per 24.2lbs of food at this point in my life, unfortunately, so I’m working with what I’ve got. I need to stay right at/under around $4.50-$5/lbs and the royal canin is over $6/lbs. I know a hydrolyzed protein would be the best solution at this point but it’s just not financially feasible at this point considering I’m physically disabled and very limited as far as income goes.

 

[motorcyclemichael]

@adebamigbe I don't get why you are willing to pay $99 for a bag of food that may or may not help but you wouldn't pony up another $30 for the same size bag that has a much better chance of helping.

https://www.proplanvetdirect.com/ha-hydrolyzed-vegetarian#size=61

 

[adebamigbe]

@motorcyclemichael To you it may simply be “ponying up $30” but when you’re on an already very tight budget due to having multiple disabilities and having a very limited selection of where you can get products because of getting a discount at certain places, it most definitely adds up to people like me. I don’t pay full price for the products I’ve mentioned which is partially why I want to consider them prior to looking into a prescription diet. Additionally, our vet doesn’t feel as if the hydrolyzed protein diet is necessary at this point, despite me asking about it directly due to my concerns about my dog’s weight and sensitivities. So, maybe consider why others might be a different position than you might be in…

 

[motorcyclemichael]

@adebamigbe Oh wooooooowwwwww assuming a lot about me aren't we. Again you're looking at $99 bags of food when there are cheaper sensitive skin formulas from more reputable brands out there.

Inflation is real don't assume I don't have my own stuff but if my dog was suffering as bad as you say your is I would sure as hell find a way to "pony" up the $30 a month.

 

[adebamigbe]

@motorcyclemichael I don’t understand your need to make comments like this? I’ve outlined that we’ve tried pretty much every other formula and brand that is specifically designed for sensitive skin and digestion available. If you name it, we’ve likely tried it.

You’re the one who used the term “ponying up” first, so that’s on you? My dog isn’t “suffering,” he’s just not thriving as much as I’d like him to be. Is it wrong to want him to be as healthy as possible so now I’m seeking solutions/ideas and trying to see if anyone has any suggestions that I haven’t considered or discussed with my veterinarian already?? Your snarky and rude comments are entirely unnecessary and unhelpful