E-Collar

[arbiter]

We have only used R+ with out dog and trainer. I have heard that any aversive training can make the dog more reactive which we certainly do not want. I would think that when a dog growls at someone and you use and e-collar it learns to stop growling and just goes to biting...I am not sure if I understand that correctly however it would make sense NOT to use an e-collar for reactivity. However what about behaviors that arent reactive, super problematic. For example, the dog jumps up, or the dog gets close to the cat. Why would using an e-collar in these cases make the dog worse? I am not going to be using a e-collar but I was just curious about the explanation behind that. Thank you!!

 

[obadimu]

@arbiter Well you shouldn’t punish growls in any manner for that reason as well.

As for the cat, say your dog is just curious about the cat but you don’t want it near for safety reasons, so you use the collar when it gets close. Whether it shocks, vibrates, or beeps you’ve now added a negative stimulus to it being near the cat. Will it learn to stay away from the cat or make a negative association ABOUT the cat? Now you’ve turned the cat into something to fear, a threat. That may make the dog stay away now OR make it more aggressive to the cat. If the dog was already aggressive to the cat, well now they’re validated that it’s a threat because they associate it with pain or discomfort.

As for the jumping…well again you may have the dog associate the stimulus with the person, not the action. Again, making that person a threat or at least something to be wary of. Also, teaching calm behavior is gonna get you further than a quick fix.

 

[arbiter]

@obadimu This was sooooo helpful. Great explain. Thanks so much, I understand it now

 

[obadimu]

@arbiter No problem! It’s tough to know what associations we’re going to make for our dogs and though the negative consequences are not guaranteed, it is important to be aware of the possibility.

 

[snickler]

@arbiter E-collars don’t really address the desire behind behavior, so while it creates a negative stimulus for something, the dog might still have the desire, for example, to jump. Therefore, the dog may skip warnings for unwanted behaviors and go straight for the jump in a more hyper active way in an effort to avoid the e-collar stimulus and still do what they are wanting to do. Essentially, e-collars only suppress behavioral desires rather than redirecting them or changing them, which would be done through positive reinforcement.

When you ‘successfully’ suppress a dog’s behavior, you create a suppressed dog. To some it looks like you are getting the desired result, but it comprises the dog’s mental well-being.

 

[coltproulx]

@arbiter Reworded/shortened because I thought this was in a different sub:

Just like treats reward behavior, corrections discourage behavior. Used together and timed accurately, you can discourage the undesired behavior (jumping up or chasing the cat) then encourage the desired alternative (keeping all four feet on the ground or ignoring the cat). Timed poorly, the correction can be associated with the trigger itself or your dog’s communication (growling) instead. For a variety of reasons, it can cause or worsen aversions, especially in fearful or anxious dogs. It’s a big risk to take in training reactive dogs.