Don't wait to take your puppy places until they're fully vaccinated- Even if it's against vet advice!

[kowon]

I was pretty shocked when I took my new puppy to the vet and they told me not to take her off the property until she is fully vaccinated.

By the time puppies are fully vaccinated their socialization window has closed and you've missed the easiest time in a dogs life to acclimate them to the world!

Ironically, this vet deals with a lot of behavioral cases. Including my own two dogs on behavioral meds. One of them is a classic under socialized dog, who is suspicious and fearful of new things.

The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behaviorists have a very clear position statement that you should NOT wait until a puppy is fully vaccinated. Source below.

Should you willy nilly go anywhere? Probably not! But there are lots of ways to minimize risks.

Should you take your puppy into the dog park? No.

Can you observe dogs at the dog park from your car? Yes!!

Can you go to a park and put some towels down and observe the world pass by? Yes!!

Socialization is often mistaken as interaction. Don't make that mistake. Taking your puppy places to observe safely from a distance is fantastic!

I also highly recommend this book if you're new or unfamiliar with socialization. "Puppy Socialization: What It Is and How to Do It" by Marge Rogers and Eileen Anderson

My puppy observing people at a dog friendly coffee shop https://postimg.cc/dh8vFzQW

Observing cars and people at a playground from the backseat https://postimg.cc/WD398kyM

AVSAB statememt: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...EQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2XurNlfNBdo52xkVahO4P5)

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@kowon Vets are usually stricter than they need to be because a lot of people are stupid. If the vet says, "you can take the puppy to a shopping center, just make sure to carry them, and don't let them interact with other dogs there," some people are going to interpret this as "carry them 75% of the time, and it's ok if they just touch noses with another dog, since that's not really interacting."

 

[lbir0]

@imagebeastmarkbeast It was tricky with my pup. I have ocd so if the vet says “don’t do x or y” I’ll go with don’t do x, y, or z “just to be safe”. Luckily my pup loves everything and everyone he’s ever met even though we were quite cautious with socialization

 

[no1texan]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Same reason why they may pressure you into spay/neuter early, even tho more studies are showing it is healthier for the dog to wait. They see so many accidental, too young or poorly managed pregnant dogs, and put down so many strays a year because of irresponsible people, so of course they're going to be a bit proactive and aggressive about preventing that! They expect the worst case scenario, which sucks.

Too many vets have had to watch helpless as whole litters die of parvo, or as a well meaning but ignorant family sobs in the lobby after losing their brand new puppy to something so preventable.

 

[imolly]

@no1texan My vet said a year and a half for neutering, but she was really against socialization until he was fully vaxxed. I ended up ignoring the vaxxed aspect since every dog owner told me to, but he wont go near a dog park, or a bunch of dogs until he is fully protected. He is going to be ginormous though, so he needs to be comfortable with other dogs, at least with me as an owner since I am not strong enough to hold an angry 120 dog back if he decides to hate other dogs. He was supposed to be a 60 pound dog as an fyibfor anyone saying I shouldnt have taken on more than I can chew. Also he loves all dogs and people thus far.

 

[imolly]

@kylo28 I knew I was being lied to, but I was in love at that point.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@kylo28 Reputable breeders should actually have a pretty good idea of how big the dog will be when grown. They may still be off, but I'd expect them to be pretty good about being within an estimated range. They know their lines, and the dog's pedigree very well, and will be breeding for consistency.

 

[imolly]

@imagebeastmarkbeast He wasn't from a breeder.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@imolly I think something might have gotten mixed up. I was replying to another comment in the thread, not directly to yours.

 

[kylo28]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Yeah, that was why I said “some more informed than others” – a breeder should have a good idea, but there are always outliers and oddballs who are larger/smaller than the rest of the litter, or even the line.

Rescues make a guess, since lineage (never mind breed, often enough) aren’t known, but – and not to shame them for it – I know a lot will give you the guess they think you want to hear, so long as it’s not unreasonable and/or putting a dog in a situation that isn’t good for them (e.g. too large for the environment, too small for other dogs in their new home, etc.).

Reality is, all else being equal, the difference between an 80 pound dog and a 100 pound dog isn’t a whole lot, even though it can sound like it is. Whether a husky mix is 60 pounds or 80 pounds doesn’t mean much, they’ll still tear up your yard if given half a chance, and the holes will be at least as deep.

 

[mkangu]

@imolly What breed?

 

[uncertainmaria]

@no1texan I hear you! I had to fight my rescue agency to allow me to wait 4 extra week to spay. It’s not nothing. It allowed me to have extra weeks to build trust with my pup at least. But ideally would’ve waited several more months!

Luckily she is a mixed breed and should be protected from many of the issues that happen with spaying purebred labs too early (hip dysplasia, etc)

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@uncertainmaria Unfortunately, that's not necessarily the case. Hip dysplasia affects quite a few breeds, and mixes can be at increased risk, since when breeds are mixed, two or more different breeds' structures are combined, and those structures may be pretty compatible, or they may not be. Additionally, mixes are the results of BYB or commercial breeder dogs (oops litters, or intentionally bred mixes), and these are not the healthiest dogs, nor the dogs with the best structures to begin with. Structure and health and closely related, since good structure helps prevent bone, joint, and movement issues.

 

[mechawingzero]

@imagebeastmarkbeast In fairness, Vets also have to put down puppies with parvo, and console the owners. My area had a major parvo situation this past summer, and one of the vet techs was crying during my puppy’s check up to me, after putting down a lab puppy that morning.

 

[kowon]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Ergh, my vet literally said not to leave my property. They're aware that I'm an experienced owner. They didn't even answer my questions about number of parvo cases in the area or anything like that.

I'm in a group chat with the other litter puppy owners, spread over the US, and their vets gave the same advice not to leave their properties.

I don't remember my vet(s) in Europe ever giving me this advice. Americans can be really weird.

 

[adriana28]

@kowon I'm from Europe and I got the same advice, so please don't start with "Americans bad" thing.

Vets are here to help out with puppies health problem, not their behaviour. They are the one to watch the dogs die because of some disease and they put down some dogs, if they are asked to or if the situation requires it. They are literally obligated to tell you everything they can to save the dogs lives. If by any chance you don't listen, at least they have clear conscience.

If only people weren't idiots, maybe the risk of catching something nasty would be minimal, but I literally saw a grown up dude with his dog run (run, not walk) to my puppy, because "oh look puppy". How am I supposed to safely socialize, if others people act like little children?

 

[je5usfre4k]

@kowon Parvo outbreaks are regional. What’s fine in, say, New York State, may well be high risk behavior in South Carolina. There can even be major differences from county to county within a state.

I listen to my vet. He’s a smart, young guy who stays on top of the current situation locally and who’s on top of the most recent literature.

 

[eloquentspeaker14]

@kowon I live in NYC with very high parvo risk. My vet told me that I shouldn’t go for walks in the neighborhood but I can walk with my puppy in a carrier