Dog Training Post Attack

[designersxx2]

@rdmarita This is something outside the scope where people on the internet can help you. Please consider consulting a certified vet behaviorist to see how you should proceed - this is a serious injury and it’s very concerning coming from an 18 month old dog.

 

[madtilly62]

@rdmarita Holy shit so sorry for what happen, but it sounds like it was a long time coming.

You have a great dane pit mix that wont listen to you. You are not getting out of this with out spending money.

You can spend it on online classes, on a trainer (you probably need both) or a vet trip to put it down.

It sounds like though it was a level three bite or four, a level five a dog that size would leave more than just bruising. That being said, if you dont deal with this you are soon going to get a real level five bite.

 

[zcross]

@rdmarita I am surprised that you were even able to get such a large dog without having a fenced in yard. It makes everything so much more dangerous.

 

[bhand]

@rdmarita Have you trained your dog bite inhibition?

 

[izraeli3]

@rdmarita Dog needs an experienced handler sorry. You’ve already doomed this dog

 

[airamnire]

@rdmarita Find a new trainer and find a certified vet behaviorist. This is serious. Any trainer saying the dog needs to earn things is a dominance trainer and should be avoided.

That strong of an attack is grounds for this dogs quality of life to be considered. At best this dog will be heavily managed and live a restricted life. Please do not wait, this will not get better on its own and it will get worse if you use deprivation to change behavior.

Look for certifications like APDT(Academy for professional dog trainers)CCPTD (certification council for professional dog trainers) FDM(Family dog Mediator), CDBC (certified dog behavior consultant).

 

[amd358]

@airamnire

any trainer saying the dog needs to earn things is a dominance trainer

Well that's a wild take lol

 

[airamnire]

@amd358 Haven’t met many trainers who don’t follow dominance theory make dogs work for every resource. Plenty in life is free vs nothing in life is free.

 

[amd358]

@airamnire Making your dog wait quietly in their place while you make their dinner is pretty standard training. Do you just feed your dog anyway if they're running around acting like a crackhead? Not for "every resouce" obviously, like water, but every activity is a training opportunity.

 

[airamnire]

@amd358 We have to be careful and specific about our language. Making the dog earn affection for example is gross. It’s one thing to encourage calmness before patting by slowing your energy and teaching them an alternative behavior. It’s another to say we are making the dog earn it. That’s just gross to me. Why are we putting capitalistic nonsense on dogs. lol. It’s silly. They’re not earning things, they’re learning how to appropriately ask for it.

 

[1s4b3ll4]

@airamnire Unlike you perhaps, most dogs do have a work ethic. They feel pride in earning their successes. It also teaches them impulse control and cooperation. Currently one of the biggest unnecessary failures in dog ownership is to ignore this part of a dog's makeup.

 

[airamnire]

@1s4b3ll4 Like i said. I agree the dog needs to learn how to access things appropriately. All I’m suggesting is a shift in language.

I prefer not to say “earn” or “work” for things. I prefer to say teach the dog how to ask for things. Teach them start button behaviors. Using deprivation is not the way to go about it though. Especially for aggressive dogs. Aggressive dogs are insecure. It’s very rare a dog is truly aggressive. Most times is over arousal manifesting in the way the dog was bred to react to stress, and the emotional reaction has been strengthened and rehearsed over and over again. The more it’s rehearsed, the quicker the dogs nervous system kicks them into a higher and higher arousal state. The baseline threshold is significantly lessened and the starting point of their arousal is higher.

A dog cannot truly relax, well, even humans, any animal for that matter, cannot truly relax and learning cannot occur until their physiological needs have been met consistently enough for their parasympathetic nervous system to activate and begin to complete the stress cycle. https://journal.iaabcfoundation.org/the-resilience-rainbow/#:~:text=Hypothalamic%2Dpituitary%2Dadrenal%20(HPA,baseline%20levels%2C%20completing%20the%20cycle.

I’m all for teaching dogs how to access things, preventing access, when needed, etc. but, the dog needs to be fulfilled in other areas so there is no deprivation.

Example: the dog should have a meal before hand feeding or other training activities. If the dog is “extra motivated” to access the food because they’re hungry, we miss vital information about that dogs mental state. They will often push past things they’re uncomfortable with because they are hungry, not because they truly want to. This can make dogs more uncomfortable and reactive. It can bring resource guarding to the surface.

 

[amd358]

@airamnire

capitalistic nonsense

Oh Jesus fucking christ...

 

[airamnire]

@amd358 Anyways lmao.

 

[ace111]

@airamnire I don’t agree. Withholding things like food and affection can teach a dog that the humans are in control of the resources, and therefore the dog needs to comply to get the resources. I think this is especially helpful with aggressive/dominant dogs. OP says that the dog is controlling them. That definitely has to stop, and controlling every resource the dog wants is a very effective way of doing that. The alternative is BE. But I believe that there‘s still a chance for training to work. With a professional.

 

[airamnire]

@ace111 Dogs aren’t dominant. They are trying to get their needs met. Meet their needs. I’m all for boundaries and removing inappropriate choices. But you must fulfill and enrich their life in other areas or this will not get better. Gates, crates, tethers, on leash. All for it. Remove access if needed. But fill those gaps with other things. This dog needs to be assessed by a certified professional. Not Reddit.

 

[ace111]

@airamnire Totally agree with you!

I used the word dominant to describe the controlling behaviour of this dog. He basically controls the behaviour of its caregivers who can’t even put a leash on him.
I used to believe that dogs aren’t dominant, too, but I am not so sure about that now. It depends on the definition of dominant I guess.

How would you define dominant? And dominant behaviour?

 

[amd358]

@ace111 They're a force free trainer that's obsessed with using different words rather than training dogs. They post bad faith megathreads every few months and refuses to answer questions

 

[airamnire]

@ace111 I would use dominance loosely. But only in the context of dog to dog interactions. They’re not being dominant though. They’re trying to get their needs met. It’s ebb and flow, give and take. Compromise. It changes day to day and even moment to moment. What a dog wants one day could mean nothing the next. I would loosely describe the dog who gets their resource/need met as “dominant” and the dog that compromises their want for the other as submissive. In that moment though.

Dogs want their needs met. Period. How they’ve figured out how to make that happen will depend on genetics and environment, and chance, honestly. If it works, they do it again. Figure out how to meet their needs on your terms. But that doesn’t mean they have to “work” for it or “earn” it. What they need is given freely and choices are limited where and when needed and when possible to ensure success and safety.

 

[ace111]

@airamnire Good explanation, thank you!

I think there’s nothing wrong with letting a dog earn food, play or attention. Especially when it’s used to getting it despite its horrible behaviour, like in OP’s case. Of course, you need to fulfill a dog’s needs, but on YOUR terms, not the dog’s imo. So you take control of the things a dog wants, and use them as motivators to get the dog to show the behaviour you want and cooperate with you. I do this on a daily basis with my dog, and it makes training so much easier, because I don’t need to set aside time and space for it. Everyday life is full of training situations.