Could crate training be 2.0 of dominance theory?

[holygodjesus]

I am genuinely curious as to whether crate training could be the next generation after dominance training. I am neither for or against anyones personal belief, please don’t assume I am an anti anything, I just am curious as to peoples thoughts.
15 years ago or so, people believed in the dominance theory. You had to be the pack leader over your dog to achieve manners and good behaviour. This has now been disproven and positive only training has been brought forward. Fantastic for dog welfare everywhere.
Now we are encouraged to believe that dogs are den animals and they need the security of a crate to fullfill peace and harmony in the home.

Could this, in the future be seen as misinformation and detriment to a dogs wellbeing?
Should we be training acceptance of an enclosed environment to be only a part of training, for vets visits, boarding and transportation? But also training as a major aspect, that dogs are apart of the family home and they are welcome and trained to be free roaming wherever they wish to be alongside us?

 

[cataldrey]

@holygodjesus I think people who say dogs NEED a crate are wrong. But crate training is perfectly effective for many dogs when done right.

 

[nic_88]

@cataldrey I mean, for emergency purposes it's probably a good idea to have a crate and make sure your dog can be comfortable in it. For dogs that absolutely hate it it may not be worth it, but I'd say the majority of dogs should have a bit of crate training just in case. If you have a wildfire, flood, etc and emergency services needs to get your dog it's going to be crated, also if you have to stay in a place that is not dog friendly (like a relative with small nosy children) they will probably need a crate.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@nic_88 My dog trainer told me "The worst day of your dogs life will include a crate. Crate train them so the crate doesn't make the day worse."

 

[nic_88]

@imagebeastmarkbeast 100%, I have locked my dogs in a crate one time since they were puppies because of an emergency, but it was so helpful to have when everything went to pot.

 

[somethingillusory]

@nic_88 That's what we are doing. He eats in the crate and occasionally sleeps in the crate. I want the crate to be a neutral space. Like he doesn't have to love it but like you never know when I'll need it and if I do, I'm guessing other things will be different.

 

[nic_88]

@somethingillusory All of my dogs ate crate trained because it's just how I did it and it was extremely helpful a few years ago. My mother died in her sleep and I found her in the morning, the first thing I did was call 911, the second was to start cpr and the third was telling my dad to crate the dogs. We had like a dozen people running all around the house with tons of equipment and having my dogs out would have been a hazard for everyone. They like like crates so I can't imagine how much more upset they would have been if they weren't used to it and what would have happened if they were just locked in a room that one of the EMTs opened. It was horrible but having my dogs safe was one less thing to worry about and I'm glad we had crates for when crap hit the fan.

 

[somethingillusory]

@nic_88 I so sorry for your experience. I agree if god forbid anything like that happened it would be good to know our dog was ok and not stressed getting in people's way. But I'm also planning to use it the first few times he goes to our trailer. Like Im not going to trust him 100% not to get stressed and chew shit in the middle of the night.

 

[nic_88]

@somethingillusory Thank you for the condolences. But I agree it can be helpful for more active dogs, fortunately I have little dogs that are picky about high end dog food so they don't chew on anything they aren't supposed to... except for my one who tries to steal my rabbits food, like that is made of hay it has to taste like garbage, why would you eat that but get picky about dog food? She is a weird one.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@nic_88 Sorry for your loss.

 

[nic_88]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Thank you

 

[unsure_one]

@nic_88 This kind of scenario always comes up when discussing crating but it's not essential. In situations where my dog might get upset by lots of people in the house, or get in the way of them, I just put him in one room of the apartment and close the door. I've trained him to be ok alone and I've made sure my home is safe for him. Crates aren't the only solution.

 

[somethingillusory]

@unsure_one Just out of curiosity what about when the dog is at the groomers or vet, wouldn't they be crates then?

 

[unsure_one]

@somethingillusory You can train a dog to be OK in a crate but not use it every single day of their lives. My dog is crate trained and will go in a crate when he needs to. But I'm not going to put him in a crate when I can train him to OK on his own at home.

 

[nic_88]

@unsure_one But that's the point, it wasn't necessary until it was. I would have risked one of the emergency personnel accedently letting my dog out in a chaotic situation, neither my dad or I were in the position where we could direct them to a specific room. They could have run down the street, gotten run over by a EMT, or worst case tried to protect their mom from the people doing some very scary looking stuff, my dogs are very friendly but I wouldn't trust any dog not to get snippy in a scenario like that (first responders actually run into that type of thing quite a bit). I haven't locked my dogs in their crate before (except as pups) or since, but it was needed then.

 

[unsure_one]

@nic_88 There's not much difference between the time it takes to get a dog in a room or into a crate, imo. If it's a chaotic situation, it's just as easy to get a dog into a room and shut the door as it is the get them to go in a crate.

It's almost as if different training methods work for different dogs huh? My dog is small enough to pick up and hold or move to a room where he can hang out in comfort.

My point was literally that crate training isn't the only solution for these situations. Not that I think crates should never ever be used.

 

[malonso187]

@cataldrey We had great success with crate training, started only using it at night and leaving him alone during the day. 9-10 months old started chewing everything again. Read into it and apparently it's like a second teething phase were they start testing boundaries. Lost a wallet, credit card and he almost managed to get to paracetamol before I caught him.

All my fault for leaving that within his reach but there was complacency because of how good he was.

In his crate, he is nice and relaxed, sleeps and we know he is safe. Out of his crate, he sleeps on the sofa - but barks more often at birds he sees out the window. Stressing him out that he can't reach them.

I hope once he is two that there will never be any need for the crate.

 

[ronaldfbarry]

@cataldrey My past pupper needed her crate. It was her safe space since she was super anxious. In fact she would cry for us to put he in he box. Even though she could walk into her box on her own? Our other ones didnt really care tho but we still trained them to be comfy in a crate for emergencies and vet visits

 

[rororo]

@holygodjesus I sure hope not. Puppies need management strategies because they get into everything -for their own safety and so the humans raising them don’t lose their minds.

Crates, like other tools (leash, anyone?), have their role in dog training and management. People can be idiots using them but that shouldn’t deter folks from reasonable usage.

 

[katharina800]

@rororo Or muzzles. My dog eats everything and he’s at an age where this is less teething, more pica. There was someone trolling everyone in The Muzzle Movement a while back advising everyone they should just train their dogs. Most of the people, self included, are dealing with pica and/or fear-aggressive dogs. Most of the people spend much more money and time in training than the average owner just to get their dog within the realm of appropriate emotions and responses to stimuli. And if you don’t know what’s causing a dog’s pica they’re really not safe with an unguarded mouth, lol.