A little deceived about the 7 month old puppy we adopted

[jacques8989]

Hi everyone,

My SO and I adopted a 7 month old lab puppy a month ago from a rescue. Recently, he started lip curling and biting at us over things such as keeping him away from the tree so he can’t eat the bark. He has continued biting at us more lately at our arms and legs and is doing it in a rough manner while we’re walking, petting him, working at the desk, etc. Due to this, I decided to reach out to the person I worked with at the rescue to see if I could get contact information from the foster parents so I can get more information about his needs in case there was something we were not doing that worked well for them.

The rescue employee replied that they no longer worked at the rescue due to the mistreatment of dogs and inhumane conditions she witnessed. They said our puppy was never in a foster home and was actually staying in a pop up kennel for months. There were some days where they were never let out. Apparently they were directed by the Director of this rescue to lie about things such as this.

This news definitely brought context to how our puppy has been acting. I thought he was just a high energy dog that needed to learn how to relax and while that still may be true, he also simply has no idea how to live in a house and with people (in addition to being a teen puppy, if he’s even 7 months).

We had a call with a trainer scheduled for next Friday, but I’m going to try to see if we can move it up. I feel a little over my head working with a puppy who was a stray and didn’t learn much else like we were led to believe. We currently work on the basic commands like sit, lay down. Reverse time outs when not being nice. “Drop it”, “off”, “leave it” for things he shouldn’t be getting into. He has been responsive to crate training and has been taking at least 2-3 enforced naps a day. All with positive reinforcement - mainly training treats and some high value treats. We have been socializing him plenty with people and other dogs and he has knocked it out of the park in that area.

I would appreciate any advice for how we can make it until we get a trainer in the fold. Thank you in advance!

 

[jesuscansaveu]

@jacques8989 I watched a video of 2 dog trainers discussing puppy training. Their main point was to start by playing. Build a bond with your pup and then work on training. Your rescue has never been given the opportunity and form a loving relationship and to play like the puppy he is.

 

[idivjohn]

@jesuscansaveu This is how our puppy learned some of his first commands - making things into a game made a huge difference in his engaging with the commands.

 

[liztaylor972]

@jesuscansaveu Cannot agree with this more! Being a source of fun will teach your puppy to trust and enjoy your company. You need to work on building a good relationship first and foremost. The rest will come after you have that.

 

[troynickells]

@jesuscansaveu Games are a great way to work on this. Also, check out Happy Hounds Dog Training on Youtube. She has great videos on there to help, all force free. What you're describing sounds like potentially arousal biting. We have a podcast episode about arousal biting on Pod To the Rescue that could be helpful. For the tree bark, i would redirect your puppy rather than physically being near the tree. Try fencing off the tree? And in reality, tree bark is probably not super detrimental. Dogs need to rip and shred things... it is part of their innate predatory sequence. Perhaps google "enrichment for dogs" and learn ways to meet your dog's need to shred, tear, chew and forage. Some resources: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/behavior/how-to-survive-your-dogs-arousal-biting/

And here is a podcast designed to help people struggling with their newly adopted dogs. https://www.podtotherescue.com/smartx50.html

 

[brotherjohnny]

@troynickells I am 75 years old. My pup is 2 now. She is my first dog EVER. Dog in the home that was supposed to be a family dog. EXCEPT, didn’t need walking, or by us anyway. We couldn’t feed him because we may not do it right. We lived in a gated community with only one way in and out. And the only thing I learned about a dog was NO you can’t walk him close to the gate, If he is busy… Someone could walk in the gate and steal the DOG!!?. It was my first lesson in how family rates. Grandfather, Father, Mother, Dog then my sister and me. And I turned out ok and your pup will too. Here is what I did with mine. NEVER EVER put your pup in the crate for a nap or to bed and Absolutely NEVER EVER for punishment. You rescued him and he didn’t have trust in any mom before he came to you and you started out the same way. He has trust issues. Take a week or two and change Everything you have been doing. Here’s a clue. “ it ain’t working.” Take him to pick out a new bed and some snuggly blankets. Let him pick. Get him some new toys. Let him pick .Have your vehicle detailed and go home. Make an absolutely love with dog slobber and open the door for him to go in first. Don’t worry about putting things in the right place. And spend the next few days on the floor with him. TALK TO HIM ABOUT WHATS ON TV ,the Weather and what he wants for supper. NO loud voices and tell him how much you love him. He absolutely understands you. Not what you are saying but I Love You will get thru. Nothing else you say will matter but I Love You. And when you realize he gets it. You will forever be his mom. You can do it. If I can do it, you can. Good luck mom

 

[scottskitten]

@jesuscansaveu This is so true.

 

[paradis]

@jacques8989 That is really disappointing. Like everywhere else, there are gonna be some great rescues and some bad ones. But please don’t let this over-color your impression of your pup. He is still really young and can/wants to pick up anything you teach him. If he is comfortable with crate, strangers and dogs after what he’s been through, it tells you he is incredibly resilient and smart. I’ll also add that all 7 month-olds are pretty much assholes, including mine who came from a reputable breeder and still needs work on arousal biting and self-regulation. You’re doing the right thing and he sounds like he will be a great dog one day no matter where he came from.

 

[linnete]

@paradis Yes! This. I have a 9 month old pup and I call him “the lunatic”. But I get so overwhelmed too. He sounds like a handful but it also sounds like you are doing all the right things!!

 

[not_of_it]

@jacques8989 I understand I was lied to about my guy. I’m still working with him on certain stuff.

 

[aliveonceagain]

@not_of_it It is messed up that they lied to you, but honestly, puppies do be like that! They can act like little remorseless terrors at certain stages. I'd never had a puppy before, I'd only adopted 1 or 2 year old dogs so I had no idea they went through multiple bitey periods even after they get most of their adult teeth. Biting when you are trying to stop them from doing something is very common. Definitely try to win her over with so.rthing more appealing rather than through brute force. Trust me, I could peel my dog off a tree she wants to debark 1000 times and she.will keep going back, but if i make.coming away from there fun, she will learn pretty quickly.to.leqve it alone. Good luck and when you are working with your pup try not to dwell on what the rescue worker told you. Dogs can be very resilient, and what you described is common behavior, even in puppies that have had the perfect life so far.

 

[namibia]

@jacques8989 Until you get in with your trainer start doing the Learn to Earn Program.

This is made by a veterinary behaviorist, he needs to be on a leash to prevent inappropriate behaviors and in turn rewarded for good ones. Because he is showing aggression and resource guarding nothing in his life should be free and he shouldn’t be provided the opportunity to make the wrong choice.

It’s unfortunate but a lot of shelters and some rescues will outright lie or downplay behavior issues so they can get dogs out of their facility.

 

[luckyhawk]

@namibia I don’t think that “nothing in life is free” approach is considered FF/R+ anymore.

 

[namibia]

@luckyhawk Even if it’s a reward based system? Like it’s only positive reinforcement.

 

[troynickells]

@namibia It is just a better idea to use SMARTX50... here is a good discussion on SMARTX50 https://www.podtotherescue.com/smartx50.html

 

[luckyhawk]

@namibia I think it’s just been taken to an extreme where people use this approach to give their dog meals only by working for it. So it could be actually negative reinforcement bc the dog is in a chronic state of hunger and the food is like relieving that hunger. Used this way it’s also a bit coercive, the dog may not feel comfortable with the task but feels “forced” into it because otherwise they don’t eat.

I read your other comment and I think I understand what you mean, like you don’t leave things they actually guard available freely (like maybe bones or toys, or free feeding), but I guess I didn’t see that as NLF - I usually associate NFL with exclusively giving meals and other necessities like play and exercise by training.

 

[troynickells]

@luckyhawk Thank you! yes we like to recommend SMARTX50 nowadays. NLF is outdated and does not teach dogs what we do want them to do, and can create frustrated learners.

 

[namibia]

@troynickells Apologies I wasn’t aware that there was a “nothing life free training” system in place that has negative connotations associated with it. I was more using this statement in that the puppy shouldn’t have free access to things or situations that lead to opportunities to guard and that in turn you as the owner should be “paying” (with treats) for behaviors that are what you want and therefore “nothing In his life should be free”.

 

[6jysusluvr66]

@namibia

Because he is showing aggression and resource guarding nothing in his life should be free

Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense and is not a good mindset for addressing resource guarding. Learn to earn is a controversial approach that many modern trainers criticize for it's potential to create anxiety and stress in dogs. It is definitely not an ideal approach for a dog that doesn't yet have a good relationship with it's new owners and is potentially dealing with those issues already.

 

[namibia]

@6jysusluvr66 I’m afraid when you’re interpreting this statement you viewing it as I’m saying the dog needs to earn every part of its life and it should be “punished” by withholding these things unless the dog acts correctly. When I make this statement it’s that the dog shouldn’t have free access to things that they have or could guard and everything needs to be managed from the aspect of the owner that way they are not setting the dog up for failure. The bonus is that the dog then also develops positive associations to situations that were previously a stressor.

Dog guards a bowl? hand feed or use bowl and work on adding high reward treats into bowl.

Dog guards wood chips? Dog doesn’t get free access to wood chips without a leash on it that way you can safely lead the dog away from wood chips without being injured.

Dog guards couch?
Dog should not be able to get on couch without some sort of training of “on and off” occurring with positive reinforcement and a leash so they can safely be removed from couch if needed.

Dog guards toys?
Toys should only be provided when dog is not around other dogs or non-trusted adults. Toys should come in pairs that way there is the option of trading with the same or higher value item. Have emergency high value treats if needed to distract to remove toy.

Dog guards chews?
Chews should then only be given in safe locations such as a kennel or separate room from other pets and humans.

If the dog isn’t used to any sort of structure the learn to earn program can help create a foundation of structure with also earning trust and positive associations with the owner while they wait to work with an actual trainer.