Treating your dog BEFORE or AFTER the bark?

[amarekanne]

Our 7.5 month old goldendoodle (F) started alert barking around 4 months. It got really bad, but has improved a little since then. I've noticed a few things:

• The barking is worse when it's dark out
• There is no specific sound that triggers her, so it is hard to recreate them for training
• She is mostly triggered when she is by the front door
• She doesn't really settle anymore in the evenings, and if she does, she will pop up out of a sleep to bark

I have tried redirecting her, which has helped, but I am hoping to try and counter-condition so she associates a trigger with a positive thing and doesn't find the need to bark. This is my goal as I would love for her to be out of her crate during work hours (my partner and I WFH) and at night time - But her barking makes it impossible.

I have been sitting by the door with her, where she loves to settle, and treating her when her head pops up and BEFORE the bark.

I have read many posts where they suggest treating AFTER the bark, and others that say treat BEFORE the bark.

I was just wondering which is the right approach?

Thanks!

Puppy Tax

 

[mjane7]

@amarekanne How about trying to catch her just as she is about the bark , I suppose the timings got to be spot on.

 

[amarekanne]

@mjane7 Yes! I have been doing sessions where I sit by the door when she's settled! When her head pops up and she's alert, I'll toss her a high-value treat! I read that this is supposed to train their brain to associate the noise with something positive!

 

[amos033]

@amarekanne I’m not an expert or know what’s the “one right way” but I give my puppy a treat if she’s quiet. If she’s barking, I wait till she’s quiet for at least a minute and then give her a treat.

Also sometimes they hear things we don’t hear so they may alerting to that. For example, if the main entrance door to our apartment gets opened, she hears it and immediately starts alerting or anxiously waiting at the door.

 

[amarekanne]

@amos033 Do you say anything to get her to stop barking (ex. "quiet")? Have you noticed an improvement?

I totally understand and appreciate the alert! But it's the excessive barking at EVERYTHING that I can't have. We have to crate our pup during the work day and bedtime because she gets so easily triggered and barks excessively if she's not redirected. And we can't always be there to do that when we're working/on calls

 

[amos033]

@amarekanne Depending on the severity of her barking, we will say “No!” And she’ll quiet down. She’s a shiba inu so she rarely barks.

Try giving yours a treat whenever shes just naturally quiet and relaxing. Like if she’s just lying there.

Though I work from home, I didn’t want her to have separation anxiety, so I keep her in her playpen. I go see her every now and then and just toss a treat in there to reward her for being quiet.

She pretty much only barks when she wants food - which is another annoyance

 

[amarekanne]

@amos033 I am very jealous lol! That's not to say our girl's barking hasn't improved. But it makes me jump out of my skin every time and I feel so on-edge when she roams near the door!

Yes! We have been capturing calm, and I think it's working a bit! She doesn't settle much at night anymore, because of the barking. So I hope this reinforces the idea of laying calmly = treats/a good thing!

Ah yes! I remember thinking to myself that I'd rather have demand barking than alert barking. Until our girl barked directly AT me. And I was like ohh hell no LOL

 

[amos033]

@amarekanne It is super startling when they bark right at you!

Also considering her age, maybe it’s just an adolescence thing? That she’ll hopefully grow out of soon!

 

[amarekanne]

@amos033 I was hoping it was adolescence too! But it started around 4 months old, so that made me think otherwise! My partner thinks she'll grow out of it, but I'm not taking the chances of hoping that and am trying my best to train her!

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[nettie9490]

@amarekanne I always try to prevent the situation from happening first, by asking them to "look at me" and away from the trigger.

I'm careful about treating after the barking has already started because you don't want a "behavior chain" (when you accidentally reward the dog for barking). Read more about it here: https://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/dont-let-the-chain-fool-you

You can do training sessions with what you suspect the trigger is or trigger area might be. If you have a partner, have them go outside the door at night and lurk there. The dog doesn't bark? Reward them. Then slowly amp up the hardness level (have someone knock and walk loudly) or make it easier (just walk your dog to the door and if they don't bark, treat).

Not sure if your dog is barking for your attention? Try to notice what happens before, during, and after their barking. When they start barking, do you always rush to them and give them attention? If the behavior has been increasing over time, they might be getting rewarded for barking in some way (attention, eye contact, etc)

When you are counter-conditioning, it's important that you have a treat that is very high value (normal dog treats usually doesn't cut it). To get my dog's attention, I use human food like hot dogs or string cheese. Use whatever is your dog's favorite, every dog is different.

 

[amarekanne]

@nettie9490 Yes! When I catch her being alerted by the sound, I'll treat her before the bark (if I am beside her). If she's settled in the hall, and I am on the couch for example, I will say "look" when I see her head pop up and say "good girl!" and she'll lay her head back down. But she still pops up quite frequently.

I was hesitant about treating after the bark too! I didn't want to reward the bark. Or teach her that barking and pausing = treat. I will look into that behaviour chain. Thank you!

My problem is that I don't know what the trigger is! A lot of the time it's not something I can hear, so I can't recreate it for a training session But I definitely will do this (when it warms up LOL) with the doorbell! Since we get deliveries frequently!

Our girl seems to be barking a something she hears outside! Since she'll pop up and look like she's trying to focus on something outside. I don't get up anymore. I can just say "it's ok. come here" and she stops! I thought it was attention seeking at first too!

I have been using smelly canned food and freezing it so it's easier to toss to her. But she does love cheese! However, we've been using cheese to train her to come in from being outdoors! I didn't want to mix those treats! But maybe hot dog will help!

My main concern with this barking is that our vet scared me a bit. Telling me it is behaviour related and to seek a behaviourist ASAP before it becomes permanent. Which I partly see, but behaviourists are not cheap and I would love to try to train it myself!

Your help is greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!

 

[nettie9490]

@amarekanne Yep, it's hard when you're not sure what the trigger is--and it could be multiple things!

If you notice that it's not getting better even with a lot of effort on your part, it might help to get a dog trainer. For my dog's bad nipping issue, I had trouble fixing it by myself and it was getting worse, but it only took 2-3 sessions (over several weeks) with a trainer to get better--and after that, I did only follow up sessions if I had more questions. It took `2 months to counter-condition most of the nipping away!

 

[amarekanne]

@nettie9490 I think it's many different noises! Or just noises in general!

I feel bad because I KNOW she wants to settle/is sleepy. But when she tries, her head pops up every minute or so She's so on edge!

I definitely will look into a trainer too, just for backup

Thank you!