Starting with a non conforming dog

[charliehcf]

I finally got the big promotion and the big house so I'm hoping to get a breeding dog (or pair!) next year for future breeding.

I've owned a number of dogs and have really been in love with my 4 y/o Mini Aussie. I'm thinking about going for a full size Aussie as my next dog, next year, and breeding in the year or two after that. The next big dog show is on the 14th so I thought I'd start getting some contact info there.

The thing is, I got an agreement with the breeder to leave my current dogs tail intact and of course it had a defect and had to go anyway. But, if I did this, with this breed I'd be interested in offering them tail-on. Is messing with the AKC worth it? Would I even be able to find an ethical breeder willing to give me rights with my intentions? I suppose I will see what kind of vibe I get off people at the show.

Or do you think I should explore a less difficult plan? It's early days still.

 

[mygisfy]

@charliehcf Some Australian Shepherds have the natural bob tail gene, and others don't. Leaving the tail on just disqualifies it from entering conformation, as it's considered a fault. However, the AKC doesn't care one bit, it's the breed clubs that set the standards for their respective breeds. Check out the ASCA, they'll have all the information you're looking for. Getting contact information at your local dog show means you're off to a good start, and shows you're willing to learn and do things right.

 

[kjcolt]

@charliehcf Aussies have natural bob tails NBT) in the breed and it’s allowed by the breed standard. So it’s entirely possible to show an Aussie without docking. You just need a natural bob tailed dog.

Though even if you aren’t sticking to NBT dogs, the thing is that there’s quite a few reputable working line and serious sport breeders in the breed who prefer not to dock their normal tailed dogs.

As a working breed, Aussies can do and be so much more than just show dogs. A great herding trial dog, a useful working dog or an accomplished sport dog is as much value to the breed as a show dog is.

Though working line Aussies largely aren’t participating in AKC. They’re usually registered with the Australian Shepherd Club of America (ASCA), which is the main breed club and the original registry for the breed.

 

[home4good]

@charliehcf There are actually two organizations for Aussies in the US. ASCA is an independent breed club that is NOT part of the AKC. USASA is United States Australian Shepherd Association, which is the AKC parent club. And then there is the Miniature American Shepard that is the newest to the AKC, a lot of full sized Aussies still hate this breed and the breeders. Breeders of Aussies can belong to either or both of the clubs, they both do shows and promote the breed.

What kind of messing with the AKC are you worried about? You can show some dogs in conformation and not show others, or not show any. No breeder that I know of shows all their dogs.

A lot will depend on what your goal with breeding is, if you want recognized conformation show dogs you are pretty much forced to register in both those clubs and follow their standards. If you just want to sell puppies then saying they are registered is a selling point to a lot of the public (although truthfully the public normally doesn't know or care where the 'papers' come from). If you are mainly looking to sell on reddit then these users seem to be a non-docked damn the standard and you have to do that being a responsible breeder (go look at the mini am shepherds subs).

 

[charliehcf]

@home4good I like the longer coats and calmer demeanor of the show lines vs the working lines. That's where I would lean looking for my next dog. That's why I had some concerns about working with an AKC breeder.

 

[eteamwes]

@charliehcf Pretty sure miniature American shepherds can be shown AKC with tail intact. But no full size AKC aussie breeder is going to leave tails. It's not to breed standard and breeding just for pets is not responsible breeding. If you really want to breed, find a breeder at an AKC show to mentor you first. You might try co owning a dog but finding good mentor should be your first step. And don't expect to make any money.

 

[charliehcf]

@eteamwes You're right, American Shepherds can be shown with tails. My breeder did dock them by default but had no real objection to leaving it tail on other than making me pay in full up front. Of course after all that negotiation it was deformed and needed to be docked anyway.

She does shake the hell out of her little nub though. That and seeing a couple of undocked ones really made me think it's not the way to go for anything but a working dog. I have sat there picking cactus thorns out of a dogs tail for an hour before and can see why they started doing it in the past.

 

[kjcolt]

@eteamwes While I’d agree that AKC show breeders in the US won’t leave dogs natural tailed, there’s plenty of responsible breeders of working Aussies who don’t dock.

So it’s entirely possible to find a responsible breeder of full sized Aussies who doesn’t dock if you’re willing to consider working line dogs.

 

[eteamwes]

@kjcolt That's true. I didn't even think about working lines. My bad.