due to recent research, i assume that all dog food except for purina, hills etc is p much poison and not formulated well to be safe for pets .. so is this sub now essentially for informing others to make the switch to those brands only and educating about the risk of dcm in all other foods? /genq
honestscript
New member
@honestscript I was asking for clarification of the purpose of the sub. After research came out that grain free diets, as well as diets heavy in peas and basically anything that isn't the big 3/5 is dangerous to feed due to the higher risk of DCM, the sub appears to now be mostly about just informing others about the risks and telling them to switch the food their pet is on.
I was asking if that's now the full purpose of the sub, that's all! I won't have a pup of my own anymore soon, but did want to continue my research to help my family with theirs.
I was asking if that's now the full purpose of the sub, that's all! I won't have a pup of my own anymore soon, but did want to continue my research to help my family with theirs.
tropicalbaby
New member
@ayopaul I wouldn’t use the word poison, but yes the majority of foods available just aren’t formulated by actual professionals and rely on marketing to get people to by it. It’s become a crazy industry. I’d like to think this sub is for general food advice as well as sharing what WSAVA guidelines are and why they are important.
@ernestcop i will soon be surrendering my pup as im no longer able to afford to feed her. there's no affordable vet diet or suitable alternative for her needs (low fat, no chicken protein) ♥︎ it's a shame all these companies have fooled as many people as they have. :/ i wish there were more safe options, i wish i could make my baby happy♥︎ i hope someone else can
cheeekdaniel
New member
@cheeekdaniel TL;DR: PPPSSS turkey. chicken allergy/intolerance presumed bc she projectile vomits to the point of blood on any chicken/chicken meal including food even with a 2 week transition attempt. by day 4, the vomiting will begin. may need a lower fat food, as after a few months on anything at all, she'll always go off her food and refuse to eat for days to the point of acid reflux. running out of options, lost one of my jobs and can't afford vet diets and the only similar OTC options are not a part of the major, WSAVA backed companies. no, i do not qualify for carecredit.
right now im using up the last of the bag of temporary rx food i had for gastro upset, after this, i can't feed / keep her anymore. Context:
she's always had a history of food allergies and GI upset, sometimes without an obvious reason. when i fostered her at 6 weeks old, she'd randomly projectile vomit an hour or less after eating her food. (she was on diamond naturals lamb and rice at the time, and puppy milk occasionally.) i switched her gradually to a purina food due to the DCM studies (purina one puppy) .. still had occasional vomiting. as she got older, she got a hotspot and would get pretty itchy. gradually switched her to royal canin - she seemed mostly okay for awhile save still the occasional hotspot and she got some ear infections, but she was also swimming in the lake with me at that time so it could've been that, too. she still threw up on and off on the royal canin, and one day after eating what i remember to be a water Buffalo chew, she got pancreatitis (constant vomiting, then after a period of quiet, randomly puked a glob of blood.) ... she wasn't bad enough to be hospitalized, but I was told to keep up a bland diet of chicken and rice, or a single protein (picked salmon and rice at the time bc she seemed to have an allergy with chicken overall,) then transitioned her to PPPSSS salmon. she stayed on that alright for a few months before refusing to eat it and occasionally getting sick all over again. pepcid seemed to help, but it wasn't long before she just kept refusing meals.
i lost one of my jobs and could barely afford to buy a large bag to feed her anymore, and was buying the 5 (?) Lb bags every few weeks... but she kept refusing. she grew more picky over time. i tried switching her to an iams formula slowly (healthy digestion) but it immediately gave her GI upset from both ends. last year after 10 days of bland diet, i got her back onto PPPSSS, this time choosing lamb. the lamb made her farts rancid so i wasn't sure to continue it or not, and the latest food she's been on is PPPSSS turkey ... which she hasn't wanted to eat in days.
i'm very convinced this is a chronic issue, likely in relation to bile and pancreatitis type problems. bloodwork came back normal but she's been having these issues since she was tiny. we've gone through so many foods over time, and she'll seem to do fine for a while, then this happens all over again
i've tried the trick of leaving the food down, picking up after 15 minutes and never giving anything else, but as shes reactive, it's undone her training and she isn't toy or praise motivated. i can't afford a 100% wet only diet and i can't afford a perscription diet to test anything else. i starved myself to the brink to save her more than once.
other than the tiny bag of rx food, she has fortiflora for probiotics, canned pumpkin for extra fiber (anal glands ew) and would otherwise still be on PPPSSS - turkey. she's also on zyrtec to control environmental allergies, and pepcid to keep her acid under control.
vet wanted to try several different new rx diets, but also had suggestions for a few OTC brands b did mention the long term DCM risk to keep in mind. i'm torn.
she needs someone with the resources and money to give her whatever it is she needs. i love her and i cry every night p much 24-7
i wish there were an easier way, i wish i could make her happy
suggestions are welcome otherwise
thanks
right now im using up the last of the bag of temporary rx food i had for gastro upset, after this, i can't feed / keep her anymore. Context:
she's always had a history of food allergies and GI upset, sometimes without an obvious reason. when i fostered her at 6 weeks old, she'd randomly projectile vomit an hour or less after eating her food. (she was on diamond naturals lamb and rice at the time, and puppy milk occasionally.) i switched her gradually to a purina food due to the DCM studies (purina one puppy) .. still had occasional vomiting. as she got older, she got a hotspot and would get pretty itchy. gradually switched her to royal canin - she seemed mostly okay for awhile save still the occasional hotspot and she got some ear infections, but she was also swimming in the lake with me at that time so it could've been that, too. she still threw up on and off on the royal canin, and one day after eating what i remember to be a water Buffalo chew, she got pancreatitis (constant vomiting, then after a period of quiet, randomly puked a glob of blood.) ... she wasn't bad enough to be hospitalized, but I was told to keep up a bland diet of chicken and rice, or a single protein (picked salmon and rice at the time bc she seemed to have an allergy with chicken overall,) then transitioned her to PPPSSS salmon. she stayed on that alright for a few months before refusing to eat it and occasionally getting sick all over again. pepcid seemed to help, but it wasn't long before she just kept refusing meals.
i lost one of my jobs and could barely afford to buy a large bag to feed her anymore, and was buying the 5 (?) Lb bags every few weeks... but she kept refusing. she grew more picky over time. i tried switching her to an iams formula slowly (healthy digestion) but it immediately gave her GI upset from both ends. last year after 10 days of bland diet, i got her back onto PPPSSS, this time choosing lamb. the lamb made her farts rancid so i wasn't sure to continue it or not, and the latest food she's been on is PPPSSS turkey ... which she hasn't wanted to eat in days.
i'm very convinced this is a chronic issue, likely in relation to bile and pancreatitis type problems. bloodwork came back normal but she's been having these issues since she was tiny. we've gone through so many foods over time, and she'll seem to do fine for a while, then this happens all over again
i've tried the trick of leaving the food down, picking up after 15 minutes and never giving anything else, but as shes reactive, it's undone her training and she isn't toy or praise motivated. i can't afford a 100% wet only diet and i can't afford a perscription diet to test anything else. i starved myself to the brink to save her more than once.
other than the tiny bag of rx food, she has fortiflora for probiotics, canned pumpkin for extra fiber (anal glands ew) and would otherwise still be on PPPSSS - turkey. she's also on zyrtec to control environmental allergies, and pepcid to keep her acid under control.
vet wanted to try several different new rx diets, but also had suggestions for a few OTC brands b did mention the long term DCM risk to keep in mind. i'm torn.
she needs someone with the resources and money to give her whatever it is she needs. i love her and i cry every night p much 24-7
i wish there were an easier way, i wish i could make her happy
suggestions are welcome otherwise
thanks
theonemelly
New member
@ayopaul Have you tried soaking the kibble in broth? I wouldn’t do bone broth because it would be higher in fat but maybe making a broth out of turkey breast or other very lean meat and skimming the surface fat? When I previously had a dog who had pancreatitis (which honestly her symptoms were very much like your baby and I see you suspect it already)I made a broth with chicken breast and then blended the liquid and breast, added a couple of tablespoons to her food and tossed it around to coat the kibble or sometimes added extra warm water to really soak the kibble. I also found warming whatever food made it more enticing to her.
I used to also make her “special dinner”. I would add hot water to the kibble and let it soak for a while until it was really softened up. I’d then take the canned food, add 1/8-1/4 can (large breed dog), then hit it with some more hot water to warm it up again (I was at about 2 parts water to 1 part kibble). Give it all a good mash/stir to combine. Just smelling the canned food would help entice her. Sometimes I would also add non fat or 1% fat goats milk to the mix (1/8 cup or less) to get her attention. I actually still do special dinner a couple of times a week for my current girls, I make it exciting and and treat it as a big special treat for them. Typically I use it on days they’ve been particularly active and I need to get a few extra calories or hydration into them. For comparison neither of these dogs will touch soaked kibble, even adding a tablespoon of water to the bowl makes it absolutely inedible to them. But adding that bit of canned food? They eat every bite. They’re both pretty picky and are pretty consistent on how much they eat even on active days so if I need to add an extra cup of kibble they won’t eat the extra unless I make special dinner. I need to boost them some days to help maintain their weight (they’re already on the lower end of ideal so if I don’t entice them they end up being underweight).
My last trick, although seems counterintuitive, worked most of the time and also seemed to help her. I got a small spray bottle from the dollar store, the ones for like makeup and stuff while traveling. I filled it with salmon oil. I would take the dry kibble and just spritz the salmon oil while tossing around the kibble. The fishy smell got her attention and I’d only use 3-4 spritz which is not even 1/8 of a teaspoon. Fish oil can also be beneficial for some pancreatitis patients and I did get approval from my vet for trying this and all other things I tried.
another thing I’ve seen lately (although I can’t say how much fat is in them) is different sprinkles to put on dog food… they have beef and pork and even lobster… basically freeze dried meat that’s been powdered. I pay about $6 Canadian for a container on Amazon and with 2 large dogs it lasts a month or so when I just sprinkle I light dusting over the top of their kibble. I can’t say if this would be suitable though you’d have to do a bit of research for your baby’s situation if it would be suitable
I hope you can get your baby to eat
I used to also make her “special dinner”. I would add hot water to the kibble and let it soak for a while until it was really softened up. I’d then take the canned food, add 1/8-1/4 can (large breed dog), then hit it with some more hot water to warm it up again (I was at about 2 parts water to 1 part kibble). Give it all a good mash/stir to combine. Just smelling the canned food would help entice her. Sometimes I would also add non fat or 1% fat goats milk to the mix (1/8 cup or less) to get her attention. I actually still do special dinner a couple of times a week for my current girls, I make it exciting and and treat it as a big special treat for them. Typically I use it on days they’ve been particularly active and I need to get a few extra calories or hydration into them. For comparison neither of these dogs will touch soaked kibble, even adding a tablespoon of water to the bowl makes it absolutely inedible to them. But adding that bit of canned food? They eat every bite. They’re both pretty picky and are pretty consistent on how much they eat even on active days so if I need to add an extra cup of kibble they won’t eat the extra unless I make special dinner. I need to boost them some days to help maintain their weight (they’re already on the lower end of ideal so if I don’t entice them they end up being underweight).
My last trick, although seems counterintuitive, worked most of the time and also seemed to help her. I got a small spray bottle from the dollar store, the ones for like makeup and stuff while traveling. I filled it with salmon oil. I would take the dry kibble and just spritz the salmon oil while tossing around the kibble. The fishy smell got her attention and I’d only use 3-4 spritz which is not even 1/8 of a teaspoon. Fish oil can also be beneficial for some pancreatitis patients and I did get approval from my vet for trying this and all other things I tried.
another thing I’ve seen lately (although I can’t say how much fat is in them) is different sprinkles to put on dog food… they have beef and pork and even lobster… basically freeze dried meat that’s been powdered. I pay about $6 Canadian for a container on Amazon and with 2 large dogs it lasts a month or so when I just sprinkle I light dusting over the top of their kibble. I can’t say if this would be suitable though you’d have to do a bit of research for your baby’s situation if it would be suitable
I hope you can get your baby to eat
@theonemelly sweetheart if this ain't the nicest suggestion yet ♥︎ LOVE THAT SPRAY BOTTLE/MISTER IDEA!
what food are you using for your pups♥︎
what food are you using for your pups♥︎
theonemelly
New member
@ayopaul I really hope it works for you. I remember the stress of just trying to get my girl to eat. There were days I wanted to cry and beg her to eat as if that would work so anything I can suggest if it works for someone else then even better!
My girls are on PPPSSS and PPP large breed puppy as my younger one is still growing….thankfully they don’t have intolerances though, just picky. I do vary the proteins, even though the general consensus is dogs don’t need variety in kibble but I find it helps to renew their interest when I start transitioning proteins by starting to add the new bag to the last of the old bag into their meals. I use the PPP canned equivalents for their special dinners, I probably use 2-3 cans of food for each per month which is absolutely more affordable than full wet diet. They also get ultra oil and ultra joint in each meal and I add Bernie’s perfect poop to each meal (my older girl has a very sensitive stomach and it has helped her tremendously and eliminated her toxic gas it’s a little pricey but I also appreciate the convenience of it being all in one with grass, pumpkin, probiotic, digestive enzymes etc I just add a couple of tablespoons and done). That being said, both are completely healthy and in good physical condition so it’s a bit different from your situation.
They’re overly spoiled, I make all my own bone broths and treats/chews for them too though. Realistically it’s great that I know what they’re getting as their 10% of non wsava compliant calories, but realistically I mainly started it because I have the time and it’s way more cost effective. My butcher sells items for “raw dog food” at decent prices and I dehydrate and prepare it all myself. To put it in perspective I can get a case of bull pizzle for about $100. This gives me 120+ bully sticks at less than $1 a piece. In stores they’re about $12-15 (I’m in Canada). I can also focus on items naturally high in glucosamine for their joints etc. I’m so grateful that my girls are healthy and I can do this for them. I remember the frustration of wanting to spoil my pancreatitis girl but not being able to but learning to at least be happy if I could get her to eat.
My girls are on PPPSSS and PPP large breed puppy as my younger one is still growing….thankfully they don’t have intolerances though, just picky. I do vary the proteins, even though the general consensus is dogs don’t need variety in kibble but I find it helps to renew their interest when I start transitioning proteins by starting to add the new bag to the last of the old bag into their meals. I use the PPP canned equivalents for their special dinners, I probably use 2-3 cans of food for each per month which is absolutely more affordable than full wet diet. They also get ultra oil and ultra joint in each meal and I add Bernie’s perfect poop to each meal (my older girl has a very sensitive stomach and it has helped her tremendously and eliminated her toxic gas it’s a little pricey but I also appreciate the convenience of it being all in one with grass, pumpkin, probiotic, digestive enzymes etc I just add a couple of tablespoons and done). That being said, both are completely healthy and in good physical condition so it’s a bit different from your situation.
They’re overly spoiled, I make all my own bone broths and treats/chews for them too though. Realistically it’s great that I know what they’re getting as their 10% of non wsava compliant calories, but realistically I mainly started it because I have the time and it’s way more cost effective. My butcher sells items for “raw dog food” at decent prices and I dehydrate and prepare it all myself. To put it in perspective I can get a case of bull pizzle for about $100. This gives me 120+ bully sticks at less than $1 a piece. In stores they’re about $12-15 (I’m in Canada). I can also focus on items naturally high in glucosamine for their joints etc. I’m so grateful that my girls are healthy and I can do this for them. I remember the frustration of wanting to spoil my pancreatitis girl but not being able to but learning to at least be happy if I could get her to eat.
@theonemelly it's so odd, because mine was doing so well on PPPSSS for MONTHS with no issues... until BOOM, she's refusing food again.
reading through this, i'm actually starting to wonder if it has something to do with treats as opposed to the food itself. PPPSSS is a little high in fat, yes, but for her to have been stable then just suddenly stop eating all over again (no vomiting/diarrhea) makes me actually think her training treats might have something to do with it.
usually when i'm doing training, i scale back her food a bit and cut the treats into teeny tiny lickable pieces. my mom (who has a tendency to make dogs fat, bc of course) would give her wet food (which seems to usually have a lower fat content in most cases than dry) and there'd be no issue.
i'm willing to look into this a little more.
thank you so much ♥︎♥︎
which diet was your pancreatitis girl on / what kibble or wet? hills? purina? RC?
reading through this, i'm actually starting to wonder if it has something to do with treats as opposed to the food itself. PPPSSS is a little high in fat, yes, but for her to have been stable then just suddenly stop eating all over again (no vomiting/diarrhea) makes me actually think her training treats might have something to do with it.
usually when i'm doing training, i scale back her food a bit and cut the treats into teeny tiny lickable pieces. my mom (who has a tendency to make dogs fat, bc of course) would give her wet food (which seems to usually have a lower fat content in most cases than dry) and there'd be no issue.
i'm willing to look into this a little more.
thank you so much ♥︎♥︎
which diet was your pancreatitis girl on / what kibble or wet? hills? purina? RC?
theonemelly
New member
@ayopaul What are you doing for training treats? I use unconventional treats a lot of the times, veggies, fruits even baby food pouches lol I find that they don’t fill them up as much as higher value treats. For high value I use purebites pouches specifically the digestion ones. They’re like baby food pouches and I just let them lick a little off the spout and they love it! I’m pretty sure they’re mostly chicken though 
might be able to recreate it homemade though with some turkey and pumpkin pureed and put into empty pouches from amazon.
I think it was Royal canin but I’ll be honest it’s been a minute. She was a rescue and unfortunately passed when she was 6, unrelated to the pancreatitis issues she had a weakened immune system and my (enter any imaginable curse word and insult here) neighbour called the cops when I was out with my dad for Christmas dinner because my dogs were barking. One had gotten out of her crate and the other was jealous. The neighbour lied to the cops and said I had left my dogs for a week alone (I was gone 4-5 hours) so they were taken to the spca under cruelty investigation despite the officer noting they were happy, social, well fed, well groomed and seemed generally healthy. It took 4 days because of the holidays to get them back. I had to let them contact my vet, my trainer who was working with my other girl on nail trims, had to pay for their vet to examine my dogs and tell me they’re healthy and no fleas etc plus pay boarding fees and impound fees. All that was bad enough but unfortunately my girl despite being vaccinated contracted distemper and that’s what ultimately took her from me. This was 6 or 7 years ago.
might be able to recreate it homemade though with some turkey and pumpkin pureed and put into empty pouches from amazon. I think it was Royal canin but I’ll be honest it’s been a minute. She was a rescue and unfortunately passed when she was 6, unrelated to the pancreatitis issues she had a weakened immune system and my (enter any imaginable curse word and insult here) neighbour called the cops when I was out with my dad for Christmas dinner because my dogs were barking. One had gotten out of her crate and the other was jealous. The neighbour lied to the cops and said I had left my dogs for a week alone (I was gone 4-5 hours) so they were taken to the spca under cruelty investigation despite the officer noting they were happy, social, well fed, well groomed and seemed generally healthy. It took 4 days because of the holidays to get them back. I had to let them contact my vet, my trainer who was working with my other girl on nail trims, had to pay for their vet to examine my dogs and tell me they’re healthy and no fleas etc plus pay boarding fees and impound fees. All that was bad enough but unfortunately my girl despite being vaccinated contracted distemper and that’s what ultimately took her from me. This was 6 or 7 years ago.
@theonemelly training treats has pretty much been any boiled or baked lean meat. she hates fruit and veggies are a hit or miss. so far, i could only get her to eat green beans and that's it, but they don't capture her attention as much as lean meat. it seems that ground beef is too fatty conbined with PPP, even the leanest i can get (6%) in low quantity. she might be ok w/ having the bland diet blended into a paste for a squeeze pouch, though. hadn't thought of that.
YO, THATS GUT WRENCHING THOUGH, what the heck??? hope that neighbour has the worst luck. im so sorry for your loss :/ absolutely tragic. it sounds like you loved that baby to death.
YO, THATS GUT WRENCHING THOUGH, what the heck??? hope that neighbour has the worst luck. im so sorry for your loss :/ absolutely tragic. it sounds like you loved that baby to death.
boatjourney
New member
@boatjourney honestly though? you're not wrong.
ive seen a crap ton of dogs eat pedigree, alpo, dog chow, gravy train, beneful, whatever... and live to be some of the oldest, healthiest dogs ive ever seen. you might be right. there are options out there.
my baby has a sensitive stomach but she's now on probiotics to keep her stomach able.
im gonna look at some of the cheaper foods too.
thank you.♥︎
EDIT: stable** not able! autocorrect has not been kind
ive seen a crap ton of dogs eat pedigree, alpo, dog chow, gravy train, beneful, whatever... and live to be some of the oldest, healthiest dogs ive ever seen. you might be right. there are options out there.
my baby has a sensitive stomach but she's now on probiotics to keep her stomach able.
im gonna look at some of the cheaper foods too.
thank you.♥︎
EDIT: stable** not able! autocorrect has not been kind
kalebsanders007
New member
@ayopaul Have you tried/are you able to afford hydrolyzed protein food?
As a trainer I’ve had a few clients with some very sensitive dogs who have had good luck with the hydrolyzed protein food (one is on the PPP vet formula, the other is on the hills prescription z/d) it’s admittedly extremely expensive and you run the risk of them not liking it still but I suspect they sometimes don’t like it because they associate eating with not feeling well, not the food itself.
The tips the other commenters gave on making it more appealing could definitely help.
As a trainer I’ve had a few clients with some very sensitive dogs who have had good luck with the hydrolyzed protein food (one is on the PPP vet formula, the other is on the hills prescription z/d) it’s admittedly extremely expensive and you run the risk of them not liking it still but I suspect they sometimes don’t like it because they associate eating with not feeling well, not the food itself.
The tips the other commenters gave on making it more appealing could definitely help.