Pup does great at day care reactive to other dogs when with us

[magster1]

Hello!

As the title says, our Border Collie goes to daycare 3 times a week and does great there. This involves being picked up, going in the back of the van with a bunch of other dogs and spending the day running around with his dog friends/chasing balls. He gets nervous with new handlers but they take him to the beach and have the new handler throw the ball for him and all is well with the world.

When he was younger he would play with other dogs but occasionally got snappy. He had some smaller dogs he loved and would play for ages. He also used to try and get other dogs to chase him. I miss these days as we were able to go to a lovely beach closeby and Taco used to love the location and the other pups. As he has become more and more reactive I've stopped putting him in positions where he can ingrain and practice this behaviour. i.e. we have rather lonely beach walks at odd hours.

We started Fluoxetine a few months ago. We've noticed he seems more relaxed around us and much more affectionate. But don't really think he feels calmer around other dogs.

What are his triggers?

1. New people, especially men. If they don't look him in the eye he will generally ignore them provided they aren't in our home
2. Skateboards. Dear lord, we hear one of them coming then all bets are off. I feel like I've become reactive to skateboards now
3. Roller blades
4. People running very close by. Think jogger on a narrow pavement.
5. Bigger dogs but especially, Goldens (which are everywhere around me), huskies == the devil

What have I been doing to try and address his dog reactivity?

1. Take him close to the entrances of dog parks and having him practice "watch" when dogs leave and enter. In the hope this would build a positive association with other dogs
2. Have peanut butter on the end of a chucker and as dogs come towards him and he sees them he gets peanut butter and once they're walking away, he gets no more peanut butter.
3. Variations on the above. Essentially gentle exposure therapy without going over threshold.

Have we had any success?

1. We did take him with us to meet a friend who also had a dog. He was trying to lunge at this pup and was being reactive for a while. We did move to a distance where he wasn't above threshold. After a shed load of treats where we gave the other dog a treat and then Taco a treat they calmed down and actually played really well together. This is obviously not a luxury we have with every dog we meet.
2. We have not got any less reactive to skateboards
3. We are a bit better with men than we were

I love our boy and accept that this may be how he is and we just have to deal with it and advocate for his space. Given that once upon a time he didn't mind other dogs, is there something different I can try? A different exercise? Right now, treats and staying below threshold doesn't really feel like it's doing much TBH.

Your views/input is much appreciated.

 

[withby]

@magster1 Does he spend all day chasing stuff at dog day care? Is he playing with the dogs there or just practicing chase / herding. Does he take breaks when there? Can you ask them to film him 'playing'? Working border collies don't usually do well at day care, it actually causes them a ton of stress because they're not playing, they're actively working all day. This way their get full of stress hormones and it takes days to come down from that. Then when they're on leash and see a dog / skateboard /jogger and can't get to the thing to chase they then get frustrated and reactive. It's different from fear reactive or even aggressive reactive. The treats don't really work in the same way because the dog isn't afraid, it's driven to chase/work. Sometimes you can redirect to toys but don't jump to punishment or you will create fear reactivity . It's their drive to work things that move and then their reaction frustration that they cannot. I am guessing from having seen may BCs in this situation and owning BCs. Really a good assessment from a qualified trainer would confirm it for you.

I know I would not send my BC to dog day care, he's just not that kind of dog. Playing with dogs all day would not be fun for him, it would be work. I've seen many borders fixate on other dogs as their "work' as well, it's hard to get them to stop especially if they get to keep playing the game. This is the only course I have seen that helps this particular problem https://www.alldogsaregood.com/unchase they use likimats and reinforcement training to change the dog's response. I don't know if you can find something like it in your area. https://journeydogtraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ProtocolforRelaxation.pdf This is another good program to follow for dogs like this.

Wanted to add that maybe you could find something to replace the day-care like tricks or rally-o or agility or nose works he needs to work for/with you so he can learn his job isn't chasing other dogs.

 

[magster1]

@withby

Does he spend all day chasing stuff at dog day care? Is he playing with the dogs there or just practicing chase / herding. Does he take breaks when there? Can you ask them to film him 'playing'?

I hadn't even considered this. I believe he does play with the other pups and that he does spend some time resting. But this is a really interesting point and I shall chat with the daycare.

Thanks!

 

[ana83]

@magster1 Hows your energy? You mentioned he's good at daycare. It's possible if you're feeling nervous in the situations he gets snappy he's reacting to your energy.

I would try getting someone other than yourselves to take him for a walk. Someone whos a pet care professional with a calm and confident demeanor to determine if he's just feeding off you preemptively getting anxious about a possible negative encounter.

 

[magster1]

@ana83 Thanks for the response! I don't believe this to be the case as I'm generally quite calm, but worth being cognisant of!

 

[dobichlan18]

@magster1 I have exactly this and have seen a veterinary behavioural specialist about it. He feels it is likely a form of resource guarding / territorial behaviour. Unfortunately if that is the case it is very difficult to fix as for a lot of dogs it is a very ingrained instinct. We have however had some progress with Fluoxetine, Clonidine and continuing desensitizing training. We have alsp trialled temporary chemical neutering with some success too.

The other thing at play potentially here is that dogs can often be less reactive when they are in an uncomfortable environment. A lot of dogs shut down under stress. This is why you can have a dog that is fine at a shelter, and then becomes reactive a few weeks after you take them home. Behaviours are easily suppressed. The vet behaviourist told me about a study they had done with rescue dogs where they got volunteers to solely look after a group of dog, whilst the other group of dogs were looked after by lots of different people. The levels of reactivity displayed were much higher in the first group once they had built a relationship with the handler. Why is difficult to say but he thought it was probably a mixture of behaviour suppression in other environments and jealousy/territorial behaviour of their handler.

I haven't got an answer for you here but thought this might be helpful. If only to reassure you that it quite possibly isn't anything you are doing "wrong". My dog walks really nicely with strangers but that's doesn't mean the problem is solely me. The problem is around people they have a strong relationship with.

 

[magster1]

@dobichlan18 Thanks for the response!

 

[athanasius1007]

@magster1 Do you think he is being reactive because he's trying to protect you?

 

[magster1]

@athanasius1007 Potentially. If that’s the case I’m not sure how I get him to realise that he doesn’t need to protect me. Treats close to other dogs doesn’t appear to be doing it.

 

[athanasius1007]

@magster1 I'm not sure how to go about that situation either. Just figured I'd bring that reason to mind if he's only being reactive when his owners are nearby, especially on a leash, and not with other dogs.

 

[vijayaraju]

@magster1 How did the ‘watching’ go? I’m curious to try this with my Aussie but don’t won’t to push her over threshold. Did it seem successful for you? Any advice?

 

[magster1]

@vijayaraju

I'm not sure how to go about that situation either. Just figured I'd bring that reason to mind if he's only being reactive when his owners are nearby, especially on a leash, and not with other dogs.

It has been somewhat successful, if only for reinforcing that my pup can look to me and he will be safe when scary things are headed his way.