My dog loves chasing squirrels, but not playing with toys. How can I redirect that prey drive into play drive?

[fridaytony01]

Our 1.5 year old mix (pit/hound? no idea really) loves to chase any small animal that moves: squirrels, rabbits, chipmonks, etc. We don't have a fenced yard and there are lots of these critters around, so for a while this meant keeping her on a long line outside. Over the past month or so, I've been working on layering in the e-collar with her regular training, almost exclusively for recall. We've recently reached the point where I can let her off leash, and I've successfully called her off of a squirrel when she's in full chase mode (yay!).

At the same time, this is a dog that has never expressed much interest in toys. When we adopted her (at one year old), she was only interested in chewing on bones and eating food. I gradually taught her a (currently very lazy) game of fetch with food, working backwards from a nose touch, then mouth grab, then pick up off the floor, etc. But she is clearly not in prey drive when we play this game: it's a far cry from how fast she moves after a squirrel.

It's a similar story with tug. At first she wasn't even interested in putting her mouth around the toys. Eventually I found a very soft dead-squirrel-looking thing that she will tug with for a bit. We play with this intermittently, I let her win a lot keep the sessions extremely short. We also don't leave toys lying around the house: they only appear when it's time to play. But we're still far away from being able to use play as a reward (Michael Ellis says there are three criteria for using toy rewards: (1) being really into it, (2) being able to let go of it, and (3) bringing it back. We're currently 0/3...)

Ideally, I'd like to be able to reward her with play as well as food. Mostly because I think that would be fun, but also because play is more of a "renewable resource", and also because I've heard that play can be a higher value reward. I'd also love to be able to build and cap her prey drive.

What activities/exercises can I do to boost my dog's interest in toys? Is it a mistake to use the e-collar to keep her from disappearing after squirrels while also trying to build her prey drive for playing? (For what it's worth, the e-collar hasn't removed her interest in squirrels: she's just now also able to recall off of them.)

I've heard that some dogs never become toy-motivated, but her intense interest in chasing small furry creatures suggests that there's plenty of prey drive there, it's just not focused where I want it to be.

TL;DR: Dog has plenty of prey drive for small furry animals, but almost none for playing with toys. How can I switch that around?

 

[lightmyway82]

@fridaytony01 Have you tried a flirt pole? It’s kind of like a giant cat toy and you can move it around to mimic small animal movement. My dogs love it and get super engaged. Then I used the e collar to get a solid “out” command to get them to disengage while in motion, and also to drop it when they catch it. Might be worth a try!

 

[elevangeliodehoy]

@lightmyway82 This was my first thought too. That or one of those long handled sheepskin tugs, you have to run like hell though with those

 

[fridaytony01]

@lightmyway82 Good idea! I haven't tried a flirt pole, but maybe that should be my next step. Any tips for how to use it most effectively? Like, should I let her win a lot like with the tug, or is it better as more of a "frustration building" exercise?

 

[rachelc0]

@fridaytony01 Just to tag on to this, the "Out" should be the very last command that you teach if you're dealing with a dog that is lacking engagement.

If you teach it too soon, before they become in love with play, then the dog won't think that the play is worth dealing with all that control.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@fridaytony01 There’s an idea with behavior that as you get closer to the point of behavioral extinction, you also get more frustrated, but the more frustrated you are when you succeed, the further out that point of extinction is pushed. And flirting (excuse the pun) with that line in play is how (or at least one way how) you build toy/prey drive.

 

[karubin]

@lightmyway82 +1 for flirt pole! All of our prey-driven dogs love it, use a tug toy on the end and it will be great for building interest in a game of tug.

 

[megas01]

@lightmyway82 I know it's an old post, but if you get this... can you tell me more about the flirt pole with the collar and commands? We've tried collar training for jumping on people with the buzzer on it, but you know, you've got to be right on time with no delay when using the collar for behavioral discipline, and I just couldn't catch the rhythm! I know my coonhound just likes to hunt, and I don't want to deprive her or break her spirit, but my neighbors love their cats. Plus, I feel really bad when she gets a baby squirrel while the mother watches.

 

[jayallen]

@fridaytony01 I second the recommendation of a flirt pole - particularly with leather straps at the end or even the 'soft dead-looking squirrel toy' you mention tied to the end.

it's hard to give advice without seeing how you currently play with your dog, but some generic tips that I've seen be successful for others with dogs with low toy-drive:

keep the toy low to the ground, move it fast and erratically. let the dog chase after it, never bring the toy to their mouth (squirrels never jump into a dog's mouth). if she grabs it, she wins it. if she drops it, snatch it back and the game resumes.

be enthusiastic and into it. get hyped!

some dogs like when the owner pretends to hide the toy and is sneaky about it and then when the dog shows and interest BAM there it is moving fast and quick.

attach a leash/long line and tie it to a tree. use flirt pole, other toy, etc to tease the dog out of reach. when she's really into it/frustrated/etc bring it within her reach and let her grab it. this is a timing trick though, because you don't want her to get too frustrated and quit. err on the side of rewarding too early than too late.

throw the toy, race her to it. grab it, snatch it, etc.

end the game while she is still INTO it.

I'll try to get some video of some dogs we have at club that are working on their toy drive. we've got a pair of 5 month old puppies that are pretty disinterested right now and an older shepherd that we've had to do a lot of work with.

in like, general play info - I've heard good things about Denise Fenzi's building relationship through play class (I haven't taken it, so YMMV) https://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/20

 

[fridaytony01]

@jayallen Wow, a ton of great info, thanks!

attach a leash/long line and tie it to a tree. use flirt pole, other toy, etc to tease the dog out of reach.

Should I use a harness for this? I'm also working on getting her to respond to leash pressure (with a martingale) and not pull on walks, and I don't want to mess stuff up.

I'll try to get some video of some dogs we have at club that are working on their toy drive.

That would be super helpful! I feel like I have a decent sense of what quality play with a high-drive dog looks like, and I certainly know what it looks like to be disinterested, but I'm still a little fuzzy on that transition period.

 

[jayallen]

@fridaytony01 yes! a harness is a must - I should have mentioned.

 

[zaphod1983]

@fridaytony01 Watch some videos and read up on flirt pole training with lures. It’s specifically working the prey drive of a dog, usually for a protection dog in the very beginning of its training. I start all my working dogs on drive work. Once they get the game and have a good foundation you can transfer that scenario to any object, not just the lure. I have used this method to get dogs crazy for tennis balls, frisbees, stuffy toys, etc.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@fridaytony01 I think you’re doing great. Does your dog ever catch any animals?

 

[fridaytony01]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Thanks! Not yet - she looks buff but isn't very fast compared to the squirrels

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@fridaytony01 Flirt pole and just tying toys to a thin rope so I can kind of tease them and make them more lively has worked well for me.

 

[sonas]

@fridaytony01 How about a frisbee, thrown poorly, so it rolls along the ground? My high-drive dog loves to chase a frisbee in the air, but when they hit the ground and roll she likes that even more.

 

[walkingwithchrist]

@fridaytony01 Persevere with the toys. Iv got a working Lurcher and when she was 2 and under her only idea of fun was to chase and kill but I persevered with the fetch and after a few unsuccessful hunts she had a lot of drive left over and I got the ball out. She loved it. Never showed any wanting to plsy before. Shes be great loves to play fetch and flirt poles and much more manageable for my mrs to walk and play with.

She never really plays at home though much more Interested while we are out in the fields and parks but but sighthounds are notoriously lazy at home.

You could also play fetch with an actual squirrel hide wrapped around a bean bag. Might be interesting for the dog

 

[ctheatheist]

@fridaytony01 My terrier LOVES playing with real fur toys. Her fave is rabbit covered tugs/balls

 

[theeyeofaneedle]

@fridaytony01 My boy has zero interest in most toys but once I tie them to a home made flirt pole he can’t get enough. He’ll go paw at the pole or drag it around he loves it so much. Honestly that hasn’t translated into a love for chasing a frisbee or ball but he gets great exercise with the pole. I let him catch it every so often. If you can time it right it builds frustration/drive. I use a 5-6’ pvc pipe from Lowe’s and a rope 2-3 times the length. The toys I use are from petco,there’s no stuffing and it looks like a little critter. I’ve also recently seen a lotus ball,they’re on amazon. I’ve seen a few videos on YouTube w this ball on how to build toy drive.