My dog is Godzilla when he sees another while on-leash, but he’s fine (if somewhat over enthusiastic) off-leash

sealedinchrist

New member
Hi all. I’ve posted here before. Roughly 2 years ago, I adopted a border collie Nox from a family. At the time, he was 18 months old. The family said (to the organisation that acted as an intermediary) that “interacting with other dogs may require a bit of work”.

I wouldn’t be here if that was not an understatement: if Nox spots another dog, or even if he thinks there may possibly be another dog around, a switch flips in his brain. Lunging, barking, biting his leash to escape, misdirected bites, the works. He’s a strong and energetic dog, so it requires all my strength to keep him in check. Thankfully, passers-by often offer super helpful suggestions like “you should try giving him a treat” (…).

While the ‘dog-problem’ is incredibly frustrating, I should say that he’s otherwise the perfect dog: he likes walks, he has manners, we have a 1yo child in the house and they are the best of friends. My family and l genuinely love him.

Anyway, for about a year I have mostly avoided other dogs because I believed Nox was intent on killing them. We tried three certified therapists, they all ultimately suggested rehoming. Rehoming where? To Mars?

Then, in July 2022, I decided to bring him with me to visit my parents, who have a sweet and stable labradoodle. I muzzled Nox and let him go off leash with my parents’ dog. Within 2 minutes, it was clear the muzzle was completely unnecessary. The dogs got along great once Nox had calmed down from the initial greeting. We’ve been doing this every time I visit, and it was fine every time.

But on-leash; the problem has not gone away. I feel like I’ve tried everything, and I think it’s somehow hard-wired in his brain that he has to go ‘Godzilla’ when he sees a dog. Because he’s not aggressive, I can’t shake the idea that a ‘fix’ should be possible. But I have the impression that training alone—and I do make constant efforts—is not enough. Do you have suggestions? Would medication make training more effective?

If you read to the end, thank you. If you have experiences to share in relation to medication as a tool to improve training, I would love to read it.
 
@sealedinchrist Mine is leash reactive/boundary frustrated as well. He gets his dog party going at doggie day care. Second male in a row to be like this so daycare was already something we did and were well armed with distraction tecniques
 
@sealedinchrist Not that it will solve all problems, but my leash-reactive BC/Aussie guy was obsessed with tennis balls. I discovered his obsession was much more intense than his reactivity and just had to show him a tennis ball to pass other dogs easily on a narrow trail. Working on a new dog with leash-reactivity who is still young enough to be very food-motivated so we will see how it goes.
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast This is really common with herding dogs because of their prey drive. If OP played with their dog with a tennis ball a few times and got the dog to chase it, and then carried one on a walk, all they would have to do is bounce the ball to redirect the dog’s attention
 
@lifos Ehm, I’m sure this was meant well, but I have tried toys, treats he would do anything for in any other circumstances, no success. He adores his ball, but he ignores it on walks when he spots a dog, even very long distance. Every dog is different, I think.
 
@sealedinchrist Following this post! My dog has similar frustrations; off leash she plays with dogs no problem, I know she’s high energy and on the larger side (40kg) thus won’t let her play with older or smaller dogs to prevent any accidental injuries. we’ve never had issues with other dogs off leash but on leash is a different story. Acts exactly the same as what you described, bystanders will comment “maybe you should train your dog” …yes thanks for the helpful tip!
Any suggestions are appreciated. And you are doing a great job, you’re not alone.
 
@sealedinchrist LAT and LAD from a distance so your dog is under threshold

Use a clicker if it is helpful to mark the look away

Stop the free running except with stable play mates like your parents. You need to make yourself more engaging and interesting than other dogs

You can walk along side a dog he knows well like your parents both on leash

A solid u turn and treat away when he is over threshold: use barriers like cars to block sight as well

Magnet hands / magic hands past dogs at whatever his threshold distance is for now

Pick open spaces walks so you can keep a distance from other dogs (avoid high dog areas/ times and also off leash running dogs: guarenteed to frustrate him) and do lots of sniffy walks and scatters in quieter areas

No greeting on leash

Work on impulse control games (mental puzzles/ sits and waits at kerb food etc/ for the ball to be thrown) at all levels and practice pattern games and on leash games for loose leash

Watch trigger stacking

But most importantly of all manage his environment so he can still listen to you and learn. Stop him practicing the GODZILLA. Every time he does it it becomes harder to unlearn

It has taken me a year but my dog is pretty OK across the road except on a really high trigger streets (thats another thing you need to consider trigger stacking)

This is all from my own trainer and she is really really good positive trainer. You can tell I have a frustrated greeter and that is genuinely what you are describing t me but it is strange your professionals aren't thinking this

Meds I believe can really help a very over theshold dog be calm enough to focus and take on board training but all these techniques should be done and practiced away from dogs any way first! Practice practice and get the engage disengage in a low distraction environment first

I apologise if you ahve tried all this and would say try meds! My frustrated greeter who was absolutely up on hind legs at 20 months or so is now getting pretty much better at just under 3 years old. Even managed a stay by my side and play bow but check in with me and not go while two greyhounds greeted him on leash this morning

Success!

Sniff and move on

These are resources that might help. First is a good over view and resources around thinking about the types of reactivity

https://www.3lostdogs.com/a-beginners-guide-to-helping-your-reactive-dog-get-better/

Reactive dogs leash skills and management (there is seven I think in total)


LAT LAD

https://eastbayspca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Look-At-That_pdf.pdf

Thresholds

https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/behavior/5-things-to-know-about-a-dogs-threshold/


(good post from this site)

I hope this is helpful and if it is a frustrated greeter it should be!

But medication can also really help but only with the underlying emotions under his behaviour correctly identified and a behaviour modification programme!

It doesn't work on its own

I would seek out a really experienced positive trainer and see if they can really figure out the emotion underlying the reactivity

Once I got that while it was still hard work thing made so much more sense for me and him and ... well I just gained so much confidence with the right skills and tools to help him

It has still been work but gradually he has got so much more self control

Good luck!
 
@monk58 Thank you for taking the time to provide so much information! I have worked with trainers of various approaches, and I have read up on LAT and LAD.

The ‘controlled environment’ is very difficult: we live in a street by the water, essentially where everyone comes to enjoy a walk with their dog. We have a fenced garden, but even there he can go over threshold because there are quite a few people who leave their barking dogs outside all day. That used to be an issue inside as well, but we managed to tackle this with placework.

I am a member of the local Midnight Walk Club, but I am not the only one and meeting those friends is even worse: if I manage to keep Nox below threshold, the other dogs out at midnight are likely to bark when they see us.

So if I want to control his environment, that means keeping a three year old border collie inside all day, which would lead to a score of other frustrations for him….
 
@sealedinchrist I did hope you would see I was trying to help and not patronising! I got the distinct impression you were pretty far on in your trainer journey but it is hard to know what has been suggested to us before. There is so much out there

It sounds so hard. You are in dog central.. eek!

I have to exit onto a busy street but at least I can get off it quickly!

The local Midnight walk club sounds like a club no one wants to be in... eek!

I really think you are probably going the right way thinking about medication and a vet should surely see it given the working with trainers. It is not something I have had to do yet but I can see from reading posts here many feel their dog has benefitted so much and even "is a different dog" reports over time

I wish you luck and think you will hopefully get a good plan

We try so hard don't we? I too have a three year old boy and gosh he needs his whippet spring unwound

But so much harder with all the brains and smarts of a collie
 
@monk58 The smarts are fun when you try to teach him things, but outside… When I see a dog before he does, I cross the street to ‘hide’ behind a car. That worked fine, initially. Now, when we stop near a van or a car, he starts jumping to see what or who is across the street (even if I stopped for other reasons like, say, tying my shoelaces). I am aware this is funny, I have enough sense of humour to appreciate that. But it’s also very much not funny :)
 
@sealedinchrist “thankfully, passers-by often offer super helpful suggestions” about took me out so first of all thanks for the giggle

secondly, when working with your trainer, were you working on dog aggression or leash/greeting frustration specifically? depending on the dog i think sometimes the approach can be different, your trainer would be able to tell you more and adjust accordingly if this is the case. (which is totally possible, i found this out with my pup and now we’re able to foster. still hates dogs when we’re out and about it though)

also, not related to your specific query, but maybe being a young, energetic dog he’d benefit from a doggie friend or two in the neighborhood? could help build positive associations with unknown dogs and help walk back his “godzilla-like” tendencies if he’s yelling at someone and realizes it’s his homie franklin or whomever
 
@hldawson3 My dog is very similar to OP's dog, and does not care at all about treats or toys once we're outside. Having a friend has helped her a ton! It helps her burn off energy and get some good social time.
 
@sealedinchrist I’d consult with a force free behaviorist. Reactivity ≠ aggression (although sometimes it can). I’ve gotten so many looks of disgust and judgement when my leash reactive pup is having a meltdown—the vast majority of dog owners just hear the growling, lunging and barking and assume they’re a mean/untrained dog (we’ve had redirected bites, too). That couldn’t be further from the truth with our pup—just today, because we’re working on desensitizing in new environments, we went to four separate dog parks where he saw hundreds of dogs in the span of a few hours. He loved every minute of it and we had no issues. But I had to drag him down an aisle growling/barking to avoid another pup in Home Depot. He would have been perfectly fine had I let them greet. Engage/disengage training, counter conditioning, and look at that training are all good places to start for addressing the leash reactivity. A qualified behaviorist can be a big help in creating management routines and start to recondition your pup’s (probably fear-based) reactivity.
 
@sealedinchrist I have a small dog (10kg) that was lead aggressive, but fine off the lead. He is very food oriented so I worked on distracting him with food as soon as another dog came into sight. Worked very well (except for this one dog, Ziggy, a husky mix, that my dog just couldn’t tolerate for some reason. We could be out walking, no dogs around in sight at all, and my dog would start pulling and barking. Every time, Ziggy would then appear. Felt so embarrassed cos Ziggy would not react at all, I was always apologising for my dogs behaviour and saying he’s not normally like this)!,
 

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