Mini-Bernedoodle puppies fighting

[shae]

I have two F1 (first gen) Mini-Bernedoodles that I purchased at 8 weeks and are almost 15 weeks old now. They were both on the runt end of the spectrum normally they are 7 to 10 lbs at that weight but were 2 and 3 lbs and oh so cute. (Now about 8 and 10).

Planning to buy one, a quick call to our vet assured us it would be fine to get littermates. Clean vet records, reputable breeder.

After the purchase I learned about littermate syndrome and (sadly) prepared to handle them separately. What turned into it being a plan to make it easier (they’ll be besties!) with two, became double the work, pens, potty breaks, training etc. I feel like I spent half my days out doors. The chaos has settled down, but it is still a lot and not sure my wife is along for the ride now.

The main problem has been the B the bigger dog, became the aggressor almost immediately. Puppies fight but she was on another level, simply relentless. E was smaller and had a respiratory infection and couldn’t take the pounding as the B grew faster and was nearly double her size initially. She would eventually bite back harder to free herself and things escalated. I am learning Littermates tend to be a little more familiar with each other and can be more aggressive than with an older dog (for example).

I tried endlessly and various things/techniques to get them to exist with it turning into a bloodbath. (My wife can’t even watch a movie where an animal is hurt so could not watch them together). We have separate pens and crates where they can’t see each other but know each other are around and see each other coming and going. I continued small supervised meetups.

Eventually I put the aggressive dog on a tether in the garage and outside. This allows them to play with my supervision, but E can escape at will when things get rough. After a couple weeks of this I actually had them in the crate together for 20 minutes with mostly soft play and licking. Today they were in a pen for 20 minutes (indoor plastic thing about 6 x 6) and it was just okay but again started to get a little out of hand. A couple other attempts outside and in the garage became aggressive play quick.

When together E has no problem to stop fighting and go do something else. She can be around her and lay down and chew a toy, whatever. But B is relentless. From day one she is just all out around her and won’t stop.

I also notice when my 6 year old granddaughter Ellie is around, B treats her mostly the same. If we walk her outside or play with her she will be at her chasing, nipping at her coat, jumping on her and it’s relentless. I have to hold her back with the leash. On the same walk around the house outside E will run with her and play isn’t relentless. She can ignore her get interested in a stick or sound or whatever. She doesn’t jump on her or (play) bite much at all.

So if you are with me this far, thanks lol.

I can’t walk the dogs or have them out at the same time until B is more calm and less aggressive. It makes everything really hard.

I hired a personal trainer for a visit who gave me the tether trick but most other ideas aren’t working or are impractical.

So does anyone have advice about how to calm down B other than “let them fight it out” who even the personal trainer disagrees with.

Thanks.

tiredreferee​

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@shae Ummm I'm calling a bit of bs on "reputable breeder"... Why were they so under weight? Why didn't they keep the underweight pups after bigger ones sold and build them up? Did pup have respiratory infection when u got it? And imo reputable breeders wouldn't just give u an extra puppy on the day. They'd have a wait list.

You have made a massive error in impulsively taking a 2nd puppy. One call to a vet isnt enough to weigh up pros and cons and your capacity as dog owners to raise 2 puppies at once.

Easy advice is to rehome one, and focus on raising one well balanced dog. You say puppy is "agressive".... Imo at 15 weeks no dog is truely agressive, this is just life with two puppies. You need a lovely natured dog if you have young grandkids. Pick the mellow one and rehome the other to a dog experienced home who are used to harder behaviours.

 

[shae]

@xjasonsteelex Sigh.

It is reputable breeder. We knew Bailey was going to be small and preferred that size. She had a clean bill of health from the vet. When we arrived the breeder opened the door with two pups in hand. The one we had chosen had a very small hernia, again passed the vet and no big deal. We were aware. He basically told us he had not advertised Emmy yet because of being so small and the extra care it took during the 8 weeks but that she had just passed the vet with a clean bill of health.

We made an unprepared quick decision on two and have worked our asses of to make it work. I can show you hundreds of people with two Berners that are fine. I am aware of littermate syndrome, as sketchy a term as that is and am raising them separately.

Some littermates just fight. These are now playing but the problem is Bailey is just to aggressive in that she won’t let up. Like you plopped her favorite treat down.

They have come a long way. And even my personal trainer agrees with the separation.

And dogs get things like respiratory infections. We gave her antibiotics and it cleared up and she started gaining weight like max and has almost caught up.

And we here did you get free? F1 Berners are $3 to $4 thousand dollars.

I paid $2500 and $2200.

Now, if you would like to offer constructive advice how how to get a dog to settle around kids and his sister I would appreciate it.

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@shae Sigh.
A small puppy doesn't mean small size adult. It usually means runt or under nourished. If small compared to rest of litter that's not good. And you said yourself they were abt half the weight that they should be.

And I can show you hundreds of people who struggle to raise 2 pups at the same time. And end up with less than well rounded adults.

Again, no reputable breeder wld just go "you came for one, heres two small ones for half price". The fact u got them cheap is just extra red flags for me. I never said anything abt free, I know pp pay ridiculous money for these designer x breeds.

My advice is rehome one, work within your capacity and raise one good dog, not risk it all that youll be able to do it perfectly for 2 pups at the same time with how it's started out.

 

[shae]

@xjasonsteelex Man, you’re a peach just looking for a price. The breeder has bred these dogs (and mini donkeys) for 18 years on his 100 acre farm and keeps them in his beautiful home. Litters have runts. It is common. If cared for there is no reason they won’t grow up perfectly fine and 2 vets have said they are perfectly fine. He didn’t have pups and I was seeking advice from him and then offered Bailey up if she passed the vet check, etc. Because of the hernia he sold her to me for $2500 instead of $3000 which is a common fair price. Since Emmy was the last one he sold her for for $2200 for buying both. Obviously you don’t know anything about this even if I explicitly explain it to you.

And as explained repeatedly I am aware of the issue of littermates and acting accordingly.

If I had just posted that I had one dog who playfully aggressive toward another dog and kids I suppose you would have attacked me anyway.

My lord. Go yell at your neighbor.

 

[xjasonsteelex]

@shae You seem put of your depth. Calling a15 week old puppy "agressive". And having one pup display unwanted behaviours towards your grandchild....and you still want to keep your impluse buy....? Its easier with one, more chance you'll be successful. And the size of the smaller one is clearly playing a part in littermate dynamic, making it more pronounced, again question your breeders insight in giving you two at once.

And just bc they've been breeding for ages doesn't mean anything, noones checking on breeders, esp of mixed breeds.

Have u asked the breeders for behaviour and training advice? They let u take both pups so should be there to support the 18 month process u til they are fully developed and trained.

 

[shae]

@xjasonsteelex Don’t you have a fire hydrant to break at?