Looking for information & advice regarding raw food

isschade

New member
TLDR: my dog is insanely picky; I’ve tried everything; nothing worked long term. Then I tried raw food and it worked like a charm. But I’m worried about the side effects that a lot of vets say raw feeding can incur. Advice please!

So my dog (7 year old male Pomeranian); is the pickiest goddamn eater I’ve ever encountered. I serve him up some gourmet shit that the average dog would only eat in their wildest dreams; and he still refuses it. I’ll give him wet food with bone broth and salmon oil. I’ll give him fresh food, with pumpkin, yogurt, goats milk, cracked eggs, coconut oil, or peanut butter mixed in. I’ll give him homemade food with crumbled up treats as a topper. I’ll try feeding him out of Kongs, lick mats, snuffle mats, my own mtherfcking hands; and still- it’ll take me like 30 mins and a bunch of coaxing and prodding to get him to eat ~maybe~ a 1/4 cup. 1/3 cup is a great day for him. (Should mention he’s only 4lbs).

And yes- ik I should prob just employ patience & wait him out; bc ik that my continual pandering is prob not helping & possibly even making things more difficult. Sorry to say I just can’t help it. My anxiety is way too sky-high to watch him go without food. So if that’s your only advice; just know that it’s nothing I’m not already aware of; and that- right or wrong- it’s nothing that I’m gonna actually make use of

Anyways, I finally broke down and shelled out the money for some freeze-dried raw food; and with literally ZERO prompting he GOBBLED UP an entire 1/2 cup (more than I’d ever seen him eat in one sitting; potentially more than I’d ever seen him eat in one day). He’s also never before eaten actual dog food without concerted prompting from me- even his treats he usually needs me prompting him to eat. Additionally, I’d never seen him eat directly out of a bowl before; prior to this it had to be puzzles or my hands. Now obv raw food distributors make a lot of claims regarding the health benefits; but I’m skeptical; which is why I’m posting. Most vets seem to agree that it can be dangerous long-term; and I don’t wanna do anything to endanger my dog. I’m also terrified by the things I’ve read about the link between grain-free diets (like raw diets) and heart problems. On the other hand; it’d be amazing if he’d eat the proper amount of food each day; without my needing to sacrifice hours of my time literally arguing with him about it lol.

What are your thoughts on raw food? If I supplement with baked treats that include grain will that be sufficient for his nutritional needs? Or if I feed him a mixture of raw and kibble? Or can I go totally raw? Or should I not include any raw in his diet at all? Any advice is appreciated!
 
@isschade Some dogs get really excited about new foods, especially when they have a strong scent like a lot of the freeze-dried foods can have. The novelty of it it can wear off just like it can with kibble--

If you want to learn more about picking a dog food I like this vet's videos, They are all well sourced so that you can look into the information for yourself if you'd like.

My take away is that if you want to rotate out toppers that help your dog get excited about meal time That would be totally fine as long as the toppers are under 10% of their total diet just like any treats.

Consult any diet changes with your vet and let them know that you're having a hard time getting your dog to eat at meal times because they can check into medical causes. Some extra small dogs need many small meals per day
 
@sevilodorf None of these links are scientific literature, just extremely bias and most likely dry dog food subsidized news articles.

I feed my dog Hill's right now but am studying and contemplating the switch to raw or at least a 50% kibble, 50% raw (for financial reasons). Articles like those linked above are on both sides. Please link scientific literature and journals if you're going to have such a bold opinion and then state it like fact.

I don't think you're wrong, I don't think you're right. I myself don't know the right answer. I just know the way you are backing up your statement is very poor.
 
@johnsonnick365 Every single one of those links are written by veterinarians who are employed as vets by universities or at a clinic. There are numerous scientific studies provided within the articles, which cite their sources.

Literature review by experts in the field is a far preferable way to analyze scientific literature. They have the big picture, the expertise to analyze study design, etc.

In addition to being written by experts in the field, every single one of these articles provides what you are asking if you just bothered to look

This link, for example (the first one)

https://www.alltradesdvm.com/article-topics/nutrition/raw-food-diets

Provides consensus on from six different veterinary associations national and international on the topic. That's not a poor way to back up a statement. That's called sharing scientific consensus.

It also links to other veterinary experts explaining the topic and reviewing the science.

The second link directly hyperlinks to a government report describing the recent human illnesses attributed to pet food.

The third links to the study its citing

The fourth links to the study its citing

The fifth and sixth cite their sources at the bottom and/or hyperlink to the studies they are citing

The seventh links directly to a series of reviews on scientific studies

The eight link hyperlinks directly to the study it is citing

The ninth link IS published in a peer reviewed journal

The tenth link cites 17 additional resources you can explore supporting its claims

Not a single one of these was "subsidized" by any industry interest. If you're going to make up such ridiculous conspiracy theories you better support it.

There actually are not articles from reputable experts "on both sides" citing scientific studies. Yet again, you demand I support claims I have already supported while you make things up.
 
@johnsonnick365 But sure, despite the fact that what you're asking for is easily attainable in the links written by experts here are some studies clearly supporting my "bold" opinion that is shared by every single major veterinary organization (as supported by the links I provided), here are some studies too. Keep in mind part of the reason we rely on experts is because they're the ones with access to these studies, which are not all open source (one of the reasons posting individual studies as proof rather than relying on expert lit reviews is a bad practice).

You'll also notice some of the authors of these studies (Freeman, Weese) are the folks I linked to above -- further demonstrating they are the experts on these topics.

https://peerj.com/articles/10383/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jvim.15030https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24824368/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12058569/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20163574/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220720193700.htm

ascetti AJ. Raw food diets: A research review. Proceedings, American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Forum, Denver, CO, June 15-18, 2011.Freeman L., Michel, K., Nutritional analysis of 5 types of “Raw Food Diets.” JAVMA March, 2001;218(5): 705.

Dillitzer, N, Becker, N, Kienzle, E. Frequency and extent of nutritional imbalances in “bone and Raw food” (barf) rations. Proceedings Waltham International Nutritional Sciences Symposium, Cambridge, UK, September 16-18, 2010. p. 44.

Chengappa MM, Staats J, Oberst RD, Gabbert NH, McVey S.Prevalence of Salmonella in raw meat used in diets of racing greyhounds. Journal of Veterinary Diagnostic Investigations. 1993 Jul;5(3):372-7

Weese JS, Rousseau J, Arroyo L. Bacteriological evaluation of commercial canine and feline raw diets. Canadian Veterinary Journal. 2005 Jun;46(6):513-6.

Morley PS, Strohmeyer RA, Tankson JD, Hyatt DR, Dargatz DA, Fedorka-Cray PJ. Evaluation of the association between feeding raw meat and Salmonella enterica infections at a Greyhound breeding facility. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. 2006 May 15;228(10):1524-32.

Finley, R. et al. The risk of Salmonella shedding by dogs fed Salmonella-contaminated commercial raw food diets. Canadian Veterinary Journal. 2007;8:69-75.Gutman LT, Ottesen EA, Quan TJ, Noce PS, Katz SL. An inter-familial outbreak of Yersinia enterocolitica enteritis. New England Journal of Medicine. 1973 Jun 28;288(26):1372-7.

Morse EV, Duncan MA, Estep DA, Riggs WA, Blackburn BO. Canine salmonellosis: A review and report of dog to child transmission of Salmonella enteritidis. American Journal of Public Health. 1976 Jan;66(1):82-4.

Canadian Communicable Disease Report. Human health risk from exposure to natural dog treats. 200(26).41. Acessed June 5, 2011 at http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...c.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/00vol26/dr2606ea.html

KuKanich KS. Update on Salmonella spp contamination of pet food, treats, and nutritional products and safe feeding recommendations. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 2011 Jun;238(11):1430-1434.

Jordan E Sealey, Ashley Hammond, Oliver Mounsey, Virginia C Gould, Kristen K Reyher, Matthew B Avison. Molecular ecology and risk factors for third-generation cephalosporin-resistant Escherichia coli carriage by dogs living in urban and nearby rural settings. Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy, 2022; DOI: 10.1093/jac/dkac208

Oliver Mounsey, Kezia Wareham, Ashley Hammond, Jacqueline Findlay, Virginia C. Gould, Katy Morley, Tristan A. Cogan, Katy M.E. Turner, Matthew B. Avison, Kristen K. Reyher. Evidence that faecal carriage of resistant Escherichia coli by 16-week-old dogs in the United Kingdom is associated with raw feeding. One Health, 2022; 14: 100370 DOI: 10.1016/j.onehlt.2022.100370
 

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