Looking for a little advice, I cannot tell if my dogs are play fighting or seriously not getting along. (X-post from r/GermanShepherd)

[hmw]

We brought our German Shepherd home a week and two days ago on Sunday (she was 8 weeks old). She has been pretty well behaved and sweet, toilet training has also been going well. This last Sunday (a week after we got her) we brought home our second pup - a golden doodle, he is also 8 weeks old. They have been at each-other since we brought him home. She is very dominant and serious about toy hoarding. If the doodle is playing with ANY chew toy, she always takes it from him.

The real issue is that I am having a hard time distinguishing whether they're playing or actually fighting. The GSD seems to be the aggressor and always seems to be pinning down the doodle and biting his neck. He yelps but she doesn't stop and then I feel the need to intervene. It breaks my heart because I feel like I am always giving her shit. The aggression does seem to be a little lighter as time progresses, and when they lay down at my feet they seem to kind of lay next to one another with bodies touching and have even laid heads on one another, even if only for a minute.

I cannot tell if they are actually fighting or just playing. I keep reading online advice and yet I am no closer to knowing. I did enroll them both in puppy classes which they can only participate in once they are 3 months old (they start July 6th). But until then I really need to figure out if they're just playing or seriously fighting. Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@hmw Yikes, two puppies at once? This is going to be a tough road, OP.

1. Littermate Syndrome: While your puppies aren't littermates, they're going to be growing up together so this is a very relevant issue for you. I'd strongly suggest keeping the two as separate as possible. Separate crate arrangements, separate sleeping arrangements, separate feeding times, separate playtimes, everything. I wouldn't have them interacting for more than a few minutes per day. Here's some more info.
   
2. Breed Differences: I know this isn't true for every GSD, but I know many (including my own) that don't get along with Goldens and Doodles because their play styles are so fundamentally different. GSDs have an intense chasey-bitey play style that many dogs find rude, and Goldens/Doodles have a light and goofy play style that sometimes GSDs will try to correct. It's like living with SpongeBob SquarePants (the Doodle) and Squidward (the GSD) under one roof.
   
3. Your Question: I'd be very careful about your GSD's toy hoarding turning into resource guarding behavior. It doesn't sound aggressive right now, but it could turn bad as the dogs get older. However, if you keep them separate for the reasons I mentioned above, it may work itself out as the dogs mature.

 

[hmw]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Oh boy. I really appreciate your advice but separating them is not really possible unfortunately. They actually seem to like one another, I just wonder about their play, how to be able to tell if the GSD is being too rough. The doodle seems to go back for more, if I pick him up he cries to be let back down to continue playing. We just took them for a walk and they walked next to one another (as well as puppies can walk on a leash). I am thinking to maybe get a trainer to come in and see if they can give me some advice before we even start puppy classes. I realllly want to believe that they can get along well.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@hmw I agree with /@skendit on this one. The trainer will likely tell you to work with them individually. What happens if they grow up together is that they get overly attached, which doesn't seem like too bad an issue until you try to do things apart. It's not that they can't ever be together or an issue of them getting along well, but they need to learn how to operate as independent dogs. They can become destructive (or worse) when separated if they aren't used to it. And eventually, you will need to do things with them separately at some point in their lives.

 

[hmw]

@imagebeastmarkbeast I do work with them individually, feed them in different rooms, as well as take them out to do their business individually. We do go for walks together though in the morning and evening. I just can't keep them in different areas of the house while watching them both, that's just not possible.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@hmw A trainer is going to tell you to separate them. I'm serious, you really don't want them "getting along well", because over time they'll get along TOO well.

Either find a way to keep them apart or return one of the puppies.

 

[needafriend79]

@hmw Eek, I know this is not what you want to hear, but it's importance cannot be stated enough. This is a potential recipe for codependent dogs that cannot function without each other, OP. /@skendit is right. For their mental health it is truly imperative that you read as much as you can about littermate syndrome and adhere to the recommendations. Better yet, you should return one of the puppies to the breeder, but no one ever wants to do that. I actually know someone with two dogs that were raised together from puppyhood and the owners really shrugged off the concern about littermate syndrome. These dogs are both absolute messes now If one is at the vet for a few days the other has to be given Xanax because she literally cannot function without the other dog; she loses her mind and chews on her tail until it is raw, chews up the baseboards, stress-urinates in the house, cries incessantly, etc. This is such a huge concern and people love to shrug it off. Sure, some people do get lucky and their dogs both turn out fine, but you can't assume you will be lucky like that.

As for the issues you are describing, which in my mind are the least of your worries right now, sure, a trainer is a great idea. They can be very helpful. But any good trainer is also going to encourage strongly that you keep them separate. I wish you the best and hope you take the advice you are being given here seriously. No one is trying to upset you or make you feel bad; we are just all dog lovers that don't want to see dogs set up for serious issues and stress later on that was completely preventable.

 

[hmw]

@needafriend79 You're right, it's not what I want to hear, but I am not upset, and I appreciate the advice. I am just trying to figure out what to do now that I do have two of them. I understand why we should keep them separately, but now I am trying to figure how we could go about separating them and help them to not be codependent.

 

[needafriend79]

@hmw This is another great article recommended on the subject. It gives some great tips on separating them and how to handle things if you can't return one of the puppies (which is really always the recommendation given by professionals). Separate crates, X-pens and barriers throughout the house are going to be your best friend.

https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/i...ems-Adopting-Two-Puppies-At-Once_16190-1.html