Looking for a change from Purina Pro Plan

nlu

New member
Our Odie (10mo old) has started with Wellness and Fromm and now on Purina Pro Plan Puppy (chicken and rice) and doing well. [Has been for 3-4 months]

Our friend and ODIEs girlfriend is a 9mo rottweiler and is 20lbs more than Odie and is switching to Victor from ??? and we are also thinking of having an alternative to Purina Pro Plan Chicken and rice for a change every 2-3 months. We like to know what others would recommend trying other than Purina Pro Plan Puppy (quality ingredients is important for our PUP).

Thanks in advance
 
@nlu Why change it up if he's doing well? What does your vet say, particularly about the risk of DCM from some of those other diets?

Purina Pro Plan uses high quality ingredients, and ingredients LISTS tell you nothing about the quality of those ingredients.
 
@sevilodorf i like to have a change and an alternate if an issue arises with Purina. Had an experience with our previous 16 year old dog. I treat my pet like family and i know i dont like to eat the same chicken and rice everyday 2-3 meals a day.

Pls elaborate "Purina Pro Plan uses high quality ingredients, and ingredients LISTS tell you nothing about the quality of those ingredients."
 
@nlu Definitely get needing a backup, especially with supply chain issues these days. But most dogs don't need variety the way we do! They don't have any of the same cultural values tied up with food as we do, and more importantly many fewer taste buds. They have a stronger sense of smell, but that doesn't translate to taste. That's why super stinky things like fish jerky and hot dogs can be so high value -- it's the smell. But they don't need many different kibble types to be happy.

I'd go with a science backed brand: Another Purina line like Purina ONE, Iams, Royal Canin, Hills or Eukanuba.

Here are several excellent articles on ingredients lists:

https://vet.tufts.edu/wp-content/uploads/DecipheringFactFromFictionIngredients.pdf

https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/06/why-you-shouldnt-judge-a-pet-food-by-its-ingredient-list/

https://www.alltradesdvm.com/topics/nutrition/how-to-evaluate-pet-food-using-ingredients (check out the add'l resources here too)

Basically, the ingredients list isn't a recipe, is a highly manipulated document (brands know you read it and many will make sure it sounds and feels nice to you at the expense of careful formulation), and doesn't give you any information on the quality of the listed ingredients (is the meat fresh? Who knows, they aren't required to list that).

The most important thing when it comes to a pet diet is that they contain balanced nutrients within a reasonable calorie limit. That can actually be relatively difficult to achieve, since digestion can alter the absorption of nutrients in ways we wouldn't expect (i.e. some foods don't break down to utilize all the nutrients, or break down very easily and get absorbed). For that reason, diets that undergo feeding trials

Things that people have been told are "bad" like byproducts or wheat, or whatever, are actually nutrient dense ingredients that deliver the amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc. that our dogs need to thrive. They're only "bad" to us because of marketing from fancy brands and human food trends like gluten free diets. But the science indicates, for example, that corn gluten meal (ew, who wants to eat that, right?) is actually a super nutrient dense ingredient, easily digestible, and contains critical nutrients like linoleic acid without adding shit tons of extra unnecessary calories.

There is such a thing low quality corn, expired chicken, etc. that hypothetically could be used in a diet. The ingredients list doesn't say "nearly expired chicken" obviously so you have learned nothing about the quality of those ingredients by reading the list.

Purina actually engages in pretty careful ingredient sourcing, much more careful than other smaller brands, and they're much more transparent about those source of ingredients than other brands.

https://www.purina.com/ingredients/pet-food-traceability-map

There's nothing about their ingredients that are "low quality" or problematic.
 
@nlu You're welcome!

The Pet Nutrition Alliance is awesome! That being said, I would personally only feed diets from brands that have a full time DACVN/ECVCN (Board certified nutritionists from the US, and Europe respectively) or PhD in animal nutrition on staff. So from that list, that'd kick out Champion pet foods (they are HIGHLY associated with DCM anyways)

A masters is really not sufficient by itself, and contracting/consulting an expert isn't either.

One thing that is a weakness of that database, in my opinion, is that they don't track whether a company conducts feeding trials, which to me is critically important. That's how we know actual dogs actually eating the food in a controlled setting do well on that diet.

I'd be sure that a brand is conducting feeding trials on most or all of its main lines in addition to the standards listed at PNA.

If you're in the US, you can actually see that information on the bag. If they do not conduct feeding trials, they'll have a statement like:

“[diet] is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles"

This basically means the diet meets those nutritional levels on paper when you break the recipe down, or "by formulation." The DCM issue has demonstrated that that's a VERY low bar. Feeding trials are considered a higher bar, which is why I stick to brands that conduct them.

The way you'll know if the brand conducts feeding trials is if they say something on the bag like:

"Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that [diet] provides complete and balanced nutrition”

Here's a really great breakdown of what AAFCO does, by the way: https://www.alltradesdvm.com/topics/nutrition/wsava-aafco-and-dacvns

There are a few diets even within brands that haven't undergone feeding trials, but that's typically okay because most of their extremely similar diets have. For example, a few of Royal Canin's breed specific diets haven't undergone feeding trials BUT all of Royal Canin's main diets have.

So that indicates that they're putting proper due diligence into their brands, despite tweaks to those breed specific kibbles that they don't think require a full trial (likely because they aren't that big of a difference from the main lines). So look at a few different diets from any given brand and see what they say.
 
@sevilodorf Thank you again

This is what Odie is currently on (chicken and rice) and the Lamb and rice is a backup and at one point we used the Lamb and rice when he had diarrhea for a few days and "antibiotics" and FortiFlora resolved the issue and (lamb and rice is now as Treats).

Odie's food
 
@nlu Yep you can see that AAFCO statement about animal feeding tests! My dog also eats Purina Pro Plan, though with some of the supply chain issues I am definitely thinking I need to find a backup.
 
@nlu Sure thing! I'm thinking either Iams Healthy Digestion or Hills Perfect Digestion. Mine has a sensitive stomach and gets soupy poopy at the drop of a hat so things that are easy on the tummy are best for us.
 

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