Inbreeding

E

eltucan

New member
Hello, just wanted your opinion n this fb post I recently saw.

The person posted in a shih tzu group asking if what happened was okay.

For context, the person said that his dog which is above 1 yr old mated her niece accidentally and is 10 months old. The mother of the female shih tzu is from the first litter, while the older, male is from the 2nd litter.

Isn’t this a case of inbreeding? And is actually dangerous and puts the puppies at risk of suffering from genetic health problems and birth defects?

Also, isn’t 10 months old too young for a dog to get pregnant?
 
@eltucan 10 months is absolutely too young for a dog. Breed clubs don't recommend breeding until both the parents are at least 2 years.

Inbreeding (linebreeding) is not unheard of in the dog community and is sometimes used to duplicate good genes. I would not feel comfortable linebreeding, but some do it very strategically and usually far down the line from each other. If you understand genetics and have done all of the proper health testing, it can be okay and not create issues.

Now, just because this pair is related doesn't mean that is going to be the reason the puppies have health issues. You really need to do genetic testing to see which parents are ressessive for what and how the puppies could turn out. It is also important to have their hips and elbows x-rayed and checked under OFA along with an eye exam. Without proper testing, you really don't know how healthy the puppies will be.

But anyway, a female should not be having a litter of puppies at 10 months. If she is pregnant, she really needs a spay abort. Bringing new puppies into the world without knowledge of how to do it properly is what leads to unhealthy dogs in shelters.
 
@lumiere The sad thing to me is these people not realizing this shih tzu really needs to be under the care of an experienced vet. What if this bitch needs a cesarean and they don't realize it until it's too late? Plus there are several tests that need to be done for this breed before being bred at an appropriate age with an appropriate stud.
 
@lumiere Yes, I do agree with everything you said. It is true that there are breeders that do inbreeding, but just like you said, they do it far down the line because by then the dogs are already distantly related and already have somewhat different genes.

However, considering that the owner asked if what happened was okay, it seems like the owner has little to no proper knowledge about inbreeding and genetics or dog breeding in general.

Anyway thank you so much for your insight. I appreciate it.
 
@eltucan Not a breeder. Only an experienced breeder familiar with his/her dog's genetics should line breed.

Obviously this doesn't include these dogs' owners.
 
@eltucan have either of the dogs had any sort of health testing? Inbreeding or linebreeding will expose recessive genes but it doesn't create new ones. If the dogs carry genes for problems they will come to the surface. Do they know the rest of the pedigree? In theory if both of the dogs are outcrossed ( unrelated) there would be a lower chance that they each carry whatever recessive trait that would be a concern. On the other hand, the chance that two outcrossed dogs carry the same virtue is also unlikely. If you want to create outstanding dogs, you would breed two dogs that you know both share the outstanding traits that you are looking for. A concern would be that the breeding was accidental, breeding dogs should be done with care and with a well thought out plan where you select dogs who complement each other and are physically and mentally prepared to care for the litter. A 10 mo old can and will have puppies but they may not be mature enough to provide competent mothering so the pups may lack some of the skills they would usually learn from their mom. It will be important to support the adolescent mom for the best outcome, she should have good quality nutrition so there's enough for both her growing body and the pups.
 
@eltucan Inbreeding does not introduce any new traits; it merely shrinks the gene pool.

Basically, you get more of what you have.

Breed 2 closely-related dogs with inherited defects in common to pass on, and you get puppies with those inherited defects. If there's something back there, it's more likely to show up if the dogs are closely inherited.

Breeders who take the long view may inbreed to check what's lurking in the bloodline.

Breed 2 closely-related perfect dogs with zero inherited defects to pass on, and you'd get perfect puppies with zero inherited defects. If there's nothing bad back there, there's nothing bad for puppies to inherit.

Unfortunately, there are no perfect dogs with zero inherited defects.

Anyway, there's no problem with inbreeding as such....the issue is with the quality of the dogs.
 
@eltucan 10 months old is dangerously young for a dog to get pregnant. And yeah, that’s inbreeding.

The pregnant dog needs to be under veterinary care. The responsible thing to do would be a spay-abort, but if the owners won’t do that, then they should at least have the pregnancy overseen by a vet who can ensure there aren’t any major complications.
 
@eltucan The safest inbreeding would be when you see the 2 dogs lineages, you don't see the same dogs within the first 3 generations. If you do, they're too close, and the puppies may have deformities or other physical/mental illnesses. It becomes line breeding at that point and can often provide the best traits from the dog in both their pedigrees. It's not worth the damage to the puppies by inbreeding.

And 10 months is waaaay too young. I don't breed until my dog is over the age of 2 yrs old, males and females. But especially females. They've finished "growing" at that point and are filled out.

I would gently tell them that they should go see the vet and request that the litter be aborted. It's not right to bring potentially deformed dogs into the world.
 
@eltucan That is too young main issue. A linebreed is like that. You could then select the inbred dog with the most traits you like. Some will be intensified due to the doubling up of moms genes. 60% each time. So 120% mom infleunce. Take the concentration genes and breed the dog to a lesser related dog and inbreeding risk low. Do it 2x linebreeding danger of genetic issues high.

The age of the pregnant dog is higher problem or if the puppies are bred. I'd lean towards abort personally.
 
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