I don't know what else to do, I'm sad, disappointed, I feel like a failure

[johnnyray]

We recently took in stray, about 1 year old, let's call him P. Originally I was going to keep it until someone adopted him but my 5 year old dog, "K", really liked him, K really didn't play with other dogs but with P it's like he's a puppy again, they are together all the time, share toys.

P is almost always such at sweetheart at home and he's learned tons of new things, he sits, lays, waits for his food to be served and doesn't eat until we tell him so, but when we're outside it's like he's a completely different dog. He barks really loudly, he lounges, and today, when I tried to pull him away, a lady screamed at me "you are going to break his neck if you pull him like that" What was I supposed to do, just stand there and let him bark? This lady's dog was barking at mine so I guess she thought that's acceptable behavior, which is not.

I can't really give him up for adoption when he behaves like that, he can be really frustrating during walks, what if he gets beaten because of it?

Do i really have to walk him? Would a 40-min walk a day early in the morning be enough? They have access to a yard where they can relieve themselves if needed. I just feel like giving up. I feel I'm failing my dog, I'm just stressing him out and making him suffer more.

Oh, and I walk them separately because of Ps reactivity, K just walks and ignores everything and everyone.

 

[johankarroe1122]

@johnnyray First - I’m glad your dog has found a good friend! They sound like a good pair!

Second - I would say that yes. One walk during a time you’re comfortable at is fine for a reactive dog. Especially if they have the yard you described. Our pup gets one 30 minute walk during the “quiet time” in our neighborhood. Some times two at 6am and again at 8pm.

And finally, (and this part took me a long time to learn!) is that walking a reactive dog needs to be very different than walking a non-reactive dog. Both for your dog’s sake and your own sanity.

When I walk my reactive pup, there’s a few things I always am doing. Always be scanning for other dogs. If we turn a corner and see an approaching dog - then we turn around. Or we cross the street. Or we find a car parked on the street to “settle” behind where we can’t see the approaching dog.

There’s lots of U-turns. Zigzagging. Lots of praise and treats. Redirection of attention.

If we’re on a trail and not in the neighborhood - we will go off trail and hide behind trees. Or cut down the ridge of a small hill to wait for the other dog to pass.

If I notice an off leash dog approaching, most times we literally turn around and start jogging away.

 

[johnnyray]

@johankarroe1122 Thank you! I felt really silly doing those things, the jogging away and the zigzagging. I'm glad to hear that's OK.

Just a question, when do you praise and give them treats? When the dog turns? When he looks at you?

And the yard is not big at all, but they can come and go inside and outside as needed.

 

[johankarroe1122]

@johnnyray Yeah. I felt silly doing that too at first. The other people obviously knew we were hiding from them behind cars. But it works!

I start the praise and treats very early. Let’s say we’re on the other side of the street from an approaching dog. When they’re about 30 feet away I have my pup sit. Before she’s even noticed another dog coming. I start praising her and treating her then. With her back turned to the other dog. I make sure her attention is on the treat. Then as they pass, I start giving her treats for staying “calm”. Honestly, this only works 80% of the time. Usually they’ll pass with little to no incident. Then she keeps getting some treats as they walk away and she stays calm.

I’m probably not doing it exactly right. But usually it works for us.

When she was a puppy, we used to take her to the parking lot of PetCo. And we’d just watch dogs walk in and out practicing. It helped a lot to do that to get in lots of practice!

 

[okieallday]

@johankarroe1122 Holy moly the parking lot of petco! What a GREAT idea!

 

[johnnyray]

@johankarroe1122 Thank you. The parking lot of Petco sounds like a great idea

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@johnnyray Hi, I want to say you’re doing great. You’re giving this pup a great life and it’s okay to feel discouraged. Every time I have a bad day with my pup is floors me and I don’t think I can do it anymore, but the next day rolls around and you get new opportunities to try again.

With reactive dogs you need to do a lot of training for them to associate these “triggers” as good. It’s not enough to just change their behavior, you have to change their mindset too.

Please google the engage/disengage game. This has been working wonders with my reactive puppy. Basically the idea is: As soon as he sees the trigger (a dog in your case) say “yes!” And reward immediately when he looks at you. These need to be high value treats so he wants the treats more than react to the dog (I use hot dogs) A few more seconds of him looking at it and repeat. Over and over. This will teach him 2 things 1) other dogs are great because every time I see one I get a treat. 2) every time I see a dog or something that distracts me I should look at my owner because this means I’ll get rewarded. Soon, instead of reacting he will be looking at you.
It takes time and patience but it works. I’ve been at it with my dog for a month and just today we went to a park and every time he saw a dog he would immediately look at me for a treat. Not a single bark.
Also keep in mind that you have to train him to care about the word “yes” or a clicker or whatever sound you use when you train him and he does something right.

I would also buy a harness so he doesn’t hurt himself when he pulls.

 

[johnnyray]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Thank you!! I will definitely try this. And thank you for the kind words. K never barks unless a stranger approaches the house, when we first got him we thought he was mute, that's how quiet he was even as a puppy. I guess that's why I feel so lost with P.

We tried harness but he got more anxious, we're using a Martingale collar and he seems more relaxed in that one, he doesn't pull much beyond the length of the leash and it's easier for me to shorten the leash and walk away

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@johnnyray Good! Try whatever works for you. I’m also ordering a martingale for my pup to see how well it goes. It’s trial and error with reactive dogs. Unfortunately, dogs at shelters come with issues that we have to work through. They’re so worth it at the end. Don’t give up on him!

 

[johnnyray]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Thank you. That's really reassuring. More often than not, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong and I keep second guessing myself. Everyone always recommend the harness, and I have to admit it did wonders for K, but P never really felt comfortable.

 

[smallgirllovesgod]

@johnnyray You're doing amazingly!

Just chipping in here with my reactive dog experience (my dog developed leash reactivity after a bite from a strange dog)

1. 30 min walk a day is fine, especially if he has other canine company at home.
2. Avoiding busy times for walks is amazing, well done.
3. Zig zagging, turning around, crossing the street, asking other people to give you space are all fine.
4. Totally try the "Look at me" game when you see triggers from a safe distance (before your dog starts reacting.) With Teddy we use peanut butter for this, as he has to focus because it's sticky and he can't bark with a mouthful of butter.
5. Mental stimulation from games, licking, sniffing work is as good as a walk.
6. For Ted, what works is either a front clip harness or a head halti harness. We also had to teach him that any pressure on the leash means "Come back to me for a treat". Back clip harnesses seem to encourage the lunging.
7. Ted also walks better with a calm dog. I don't have one but at daycare they walk him with the calm dogs and send me videos. In the videos he is unrecognizably calm.
8. Several training sessions a day seem to be tiring enough that we need less walks and my behaviorist encouraged this.

 

[johnnyray]

@smallgirllovesgod Thank you! I will try the peanut butter and the hot dogs, for my other dog we tried several high value treats and it turned out nothing was more valuable than a ball.

 

[thedaughterofgod]

@johnnyray I had a very similar situation! We have a boston terrier who was very leash reactive, to the point where he would pull really hard and the leash would cut circulation off my hand.

He was adopted from a breeding farm,never saw the light of day... so naturally, big dogs were super weird to him. He was very reactive to big dogs, and any dog that was also reactive.

Here is what we did:

1. we took him to a trainer and really focused on basic commands like sit, down, "watch me" (hold a treat by your chest when you are kneeled, and he gets it when he looks at you) and hand targetting (he must touch his snout to my hand for a treat). We worked on clicker training and more, because he needed basic obedience before we worked on leash reactiveness.

1. the trainer used her dog as a tester. The trainer and her dog would be about the distance of a dog on the other side of the street. she Would continuously walk past me. During this time, as soon as I saw the dog was a certain distance, I would take the clicker out and start telling my dog to do commands. This means that on the walk, you should not be moving. As soon as my dog saw the dog, click on your clicker and give him a treat. Praising him for looking at the dog but not acting. If he acts and starts to pull, make him sit and get his attention. It is ok if your dog keeps looking at the other dog. if your dog is ever super focused on you, encourage your dog to look at the dog walking by. After they have passed, we were safe to continue the "walk" simulation we were doing. The ideal situation is using a clicker or lots of praise when they look at the dog, but then look at you and do not act reactively.
2. we never let our boston terrier meet the trainer's dogs, because our dog bit a great pyrenees once (he was not under my control, and unfortunately my dad thought "oh, look my little dog wants to meet this big dog, let's go meet them!"). We do a lot of zig-zagging in our neighborhood, especially with big dogs, and dogs I know to be male. When he is tired after a long walk, and we see a dog he is familiar with, I will sometimes let him meet them if he is acting calm and not pulling on my leash.

His reactiveness mostly comes from him feeling like he has to protect me. He also was never properly socialized, due to being a breeder. We are currently working on him walking next to me, but he is so prey driven that it can be hard when he sees a squirrel or rabbit running around. We are doubling down on our training recently, since we are looking to get another dog. He can get along with another dog, as we had another dog when we adopted him. Unfortunately, she passed a year ago.

it's amazing what a dog is capable of, and watching them grow and learn is really fulfilling and heartwarming. I think you're doing a lot of the right things! Your dog doesn't have to meet other dogs, and just like people, they may not like every dog they meet. Sometimes, just dogs seeing another dog is enough socialization, if you feel the need to want to have your dog socialize.

I'm sorry this is super long, but I really relate to your situation. My dog is not perfect, and when there's a new dog in the neighborhood, it can be really hard to handle him. But we have been working hard and consistently, and it has really helped his confidence.

 

[johnnyray]

@thedaughterofgod I'm so sorry for your loss.

Thank you very much for sharing this! It really helps. Your dog sounds great. We all have this idea that all dogs need to be sweet and friendly to other dogs and be able to go to a doggie park, and it's really putting pressure on me.

We are still working on basic obedience, it's going slowly because he's a nervous dog, when we found him, he had scratches on his nose, so maybe he was recently attacked. It took a while for him to not pee himself when we told him off, and even now, if he sees a broom he'll show signs of fear, who knows what he had to endure on the streets. However, he trusted my other dog right away, even though he's a really large dog (also a mutt, so no idea what mix).

We're also working on self control, he's mastered waiting for permission before eating, we can put the food directly in his plate right in front of his eyes and he won't eat until you tell him to, at first we put him in a Stay position and then released him, but now he lays down on his own and waits to be released, so this gives me some hope that one day he'll see a dog and be able to control himself and not bark. Wish us luck!