How did you learn/get into dog breeding?

[keish62]

Hi! I’ve had dogs all my life growing up and about a year ago I got my first dog that I’ve raised on my own. Friends have always asked if I would ever breed dog since I love them so much and I’ve always said no because I would have a hard time feeling comfortable trusting someone else to raise one of my babies lol.

But now I’m kind of considering it in the future. The dog I have now is neutered and I hadn’t really considered it until I started joining so many dog groups that I think it may be really rewarding to raise dogs from birth and see them grow up.

I don’t think if I ever choose to breed dogs that I could adopt out my girls/boys after they’re done breeding, because they would be my pets and live in my house and I just could not part with them. I also know it’s important to give breaks in heat cycles (not have babies every year). So since I wouldn’t be giving my girls/boys away I don’t imagine I would breed dogs for very long, but enough for a few litters.

I’d like to learn more about what it takes and what is required of a good breeder, what should be my first steps in terms of educating myself? I have no idea where to look online to learn more about this? Like how do I do genetic testing? Where do I get it done? How do you find another breeder to work with to get your sire and dam?

I have no idea if I actually want to do this, and will likely sit with this thought for 1+ years before actually committing to something so time consuming, but I would like to learn more! I just don’t know where to look for true, proper education on this topic from ethical breeders. Any guidance is appreciated, thank you!

 

[fish14]

@keish62 Ideally you would find a breed you really want to work with and then get a mentor in the form of someone who breeds and shows that breed. Through working with them you'll make contacts and learn the ins and outs of what should be done. Eventually you'll find dogs you want to personally raise and work with for your own breeding projects.

 

[klpotte3]

@keish62 Read the r/dogs wiki on ethical breeding. That is what you need to do to breed ethically. You'll also need to get the dogs you plan to breed from an ethical breeder.

Since you're new to breeding, you'd have to find a mentor. And you'd probably start off with a co-own.

Be aware that ethical breeding is very, very, very expensive.

 

[94tamara]

@klpotte3 Exactly. I have a male who we are hoping to breed. He’s almost 2 years old. We have DNA, he’s a Champion show dog but until we do hips,eyes and elbow we won’t know for sure. Then we still have to test the semen to make sure he’s capable of siring. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on him already between food, vet, insurance, training, showing and gear. That’s not even including all the time and energy. I’m still not guaranteed he’s breedable. A female is even more because they need testing during her heat cycle to get the timing right and even then it doesn’t always work. Plus the female has to pay for the semen or cover.

 

[keish62]

@klpotte3 Thank you! I hadn’t thought to look there. And oh yeah I imagine ethical breeders lose money or break even on the cost of the puppies. I wouldn’t be doing it to make money, and I imagine some breeders who do are unethical and just try to get as many babies out of the dogs as possible

 

[erniedavid]

@keish62 Reputable breeders breed dogs to improve the breed, one litter at a time. You breed the best to the best and hope for the best. You don't mention what breed it is you're interested in, but whatever it is, you memorize the breed standard and go to shows, trials and other competitions and talk to people. You exhibit your dogs and train them, and you join the local breed club. You need to get all the health tests, OFA hips and elbows and ensure the dog you intend to breed does not carry any disqualifying faults or weird recessives such as off-colours. Then you need to ask yourself if you can actually AFFORD to do this as being "in dogs" is not cheap. At least, doing it "right" is not cheap. You buy the best bitch you can from the best pedigree and cultivate a mentor to keep yourself from making a BUNCH of novice errors. The biggest novice error is not rehoming your dogs when their breeding days are over. Then you become a hoarder. Did I mention how expensive this gambit is? It's not just exhibiting your dogs and all the health tests, etc. it is vet bills. What about the emergency C-section your dog now requires? Puppies need shots and check-ups and so on. You really need to think long and hard about this. Signed, retired breeder, life-time member [over 50 years] of the GSDCA.

 

[godsgrace59]

@keish62 You also need to ask yourself why you are interested in breeding.

 

[keish62]

@godsgrace59 For sure! I plan on thinking about this for a while - no way would jump into this without thinking about it from every angle again and again and then some!

 

[home4good]

@keish62 If there are dog shows around you go and watch a couple. Ask questions about them.

If there are dog clubs, all breed or breed specific, attend a meeting or two and see if you might be interested in joining any of them.

I am not a breeder but what they call a 'bucket bitch', used to be for several but now mainly just one. That means I don't do any of the actual picking of mates or having my name on papers, but I baby sit, pick up poop, help train, more poop, more training, socialize, help with everything. This gives me a good idea of what is going into the breeders actions and decisions. If you can find a person that breeds and shows to help this is the best education.

 

[keish62]

@home4good Oh wow I didn’t know that was an option to help! Definitely going to look for breed groups and shows and see if helping a breeder is an option before I ever decide to fully commit. Thank you!!!

 

[caliisawake]

@keish62 I would do a deep dive into littermate syndrome. Keeping a whole litter can prove to be difficult!

But I would select a breed, go to some dog shows and try and find a mentor who can help you. I would check out the guide on the r/dogs sub for ethical breeding. There’s a lot of good information there, and it goes over some of the health testing you should do! Beware that OFA testing is very expensive though, but should definitely be done on the dogs you plan to breed. Best of luck!

 

[april_0718]

@keish62 I grew up on a farm with family breeders. At various times in my memory, my grandmother bred chihuahuas, my grandfather german shepherds, my mother collies and papillons. I rescued a mixed breed dog when I was 10 that was already pregnant and helped her have the puppies and helped take care of them. So I would say lots of background already. My first breed was collies and then have been breeding dachshunds (just two litters a year) for 12+ years. There is a lot more to it than people think, from choosing healthy, suitable dogs and nurturing them to breeding age and doing all appropriate health and temperament testing, to proper prenatal care, to the moment of birth and knowing what to do if you have a dog in distress during birth or after, actually helping puppies take their first breaths, making sure they are eating well, warm enough, and thriving, getting proper veterinary care, feeding properly, keeping their living situation clean, training them as they grow, then the heavy responsibility of finding proper homes. I suggest you find a potential mentor and maybe start helping them so you can experience everything involved then move forward. Lastly, you should understand how expensive it can be to breed dogs. I had a dog need an emergency c-section last fall that cost me $8,500 and still only saved one puppy and she had to be spayed because they tore her uterus. A typical litter bill is $700. I pay about $60 per week on quality dog food, etc.

 

[iamdainty]

@keish62 Keeping all retired breeding dogs is how many become dog hoarders, just fyi.

Not sure why downvotes are coming in, it's true? I'm absolutely not saying all breeders do this, but even in show circles we all know of several older folks (usually women) that have gone this way as their social circles become smaller.

Patronek, G. J. (n.d.). Animal hoarding: A Neglected Problem at the Intersection of Psychiatry, Veterinary Medicine, and Law. https://vet.tufts.edu/wp-content/uploads/APLS2012.pdf

 

[thecurious]

@iamdainty Yup! Most breeders will either quietly or publicly rehome dogs. It's a fantastic way for people to get an amazing pet. The dog ends up in often a better situation (going from one loving family to a retirement couch where they are spoiled and the center of attention isn't too difficult of a transition). Often adults are placed in homes that have previously bought a puppy so a bitch might get to go live with their offspring. It's an extremely common practice. The breeders that keep them all often end up with a huge pack of poorly cared for dogs (and are usually exceedingly kennel blind....).

 

[keish62]

@iamdainty Oh I could 100% see that if someone bred a lot of dogs. I don’t imagine I would ever have more than 2 females at a time, more likely just 1 at a time. If I even choose to breed dogs these dogs would be my pets and it’d be too unmanageable for me to have more than 3 dogs at a time personally.

 

[iamdainty]

@keish62 Assuming you breed one litter every 3 years, and keep one female from the litter. Assume you only ever breed each dog once. You'll reach more than your 3 dog limit within the lifespan of the oldest dog and then need to choose if you want more than 3 or you want to compromise and have more, or if you want to grow the 4th puppy out to breed from and then retire etc etc

Multiply this by yet more dogs if you want multiple litters and keep one from each. If you breed without intention to keep something for yourself, you fall into the unethical category. There's no perfect solution honestly.

I have five dogs now, (well four + my partner's 1) and it's a good number for me, but I know I'll end up with 6-8 before my oldest passes away. Being an only dog somewhere might be a better fit for some dogs, and they would definitely get more attention and 1:1 training.

 

[april_0718]

@iamdainty This is a great point. I breed dachshunds with a typical lifespan of 15-17 years old. They really should only have three litters in their lifetime. We start at 24 months. We do back to back then skip and reassess for a third. That means they're about 4 years old when they are retiring and 2 years before you next female is ready if you are super conservative about it. Those numbers can't possibly add up without retiring and rehoming your adults. That's why a lot of breeders have guardianship arrangements. I literally can't find someone I trust enough for that though.

 

[iamdainty]

@april_0718 Even if you only did one litter per lifetime, even if you waited til 4 for it, you'd definitely end up with more than 3 in your home. That's not even accounting for any males you have! People are naive about what ethical looks like, imho.

 

[walkinthewoods]

@keish62 It sucks if you do it right. I took forever to find the best homes I could, but still worried about the puppies I'd placed until they died of old age. A dog lives longer than the average marriage.

One thing that isn't talked about enough is that you risk your dog's life by breeding her. Again, even if you do everything right.

 

[walkinthewoods]

PS it sounds like you are really interested in the theory stuff, and you can go deep, deep into that, and breed history, and research on current dogs, and planning for a very long time without actually breeding any dogs. And that's what I'd recommend doing first.