help with bite inhibition!!

[justanothername]

cross posted here and r/puppy101
big lurker on this reddit and i need help desperately i have a 4 month? Lab/pit mix? and she i just a demon when it comes to biting and isn’t learning bite inhibition.
i have watched almost every bite inhibition training video on this sub and in r/puppy101 , spoken to 2 trainers plus 2 separate vets about this issue and i’ve gotten no where.

she has a interesting history and has been in 4 at least separate homes to my knowledge maybe more.
we also think she was separated from her litter and mom to early and that’s what most other people think too.
we’ve had her 4-5 weeks now and have been working day and night to try to get her to stop. (just to clarify i know puppies use their mouths to explore the world and that’s not the issue.)

at first the biting was a little intense but manageable for her first week and has just gotten worse as the weeks have gone on.

-she has soft toys, rope toys, rubber kongs we will fill with liver treat/ peanut butter/ and water which we freeze to give her.
-we enforce naps typically 1-2 hours out 1-2 hours in.
-we have tried positive reinforcement with treats (she is very food motivated but she gets mad if the treats stop/ does commands herself and expects rewards then freaks out and bites when we don’t give her them) and pets (she doesn’t let us pet her so this one is a like 5% of the time thing)
-discipline such as swatting her on the butt/nose, an e collar and biting her back (all advice from other people which makes her more riled up)
-our vet recommended putting her in her crate when she gets really bitey and he said that should work… that was 3 weeks ago and no progress.
-we don’t initiate play with her unless she wants it (because she won’t play unless she wants to)
-yelling ouch!, imitating puppy cry, real crying.
-ignoring her by turning away from her and tucking arms up and not talking or looking at her.
-leaving the room
-including training with actual trainers but she does commands perfectly and will not go after trainers like she does us.

my arms and legs look like i’m being beat or trying to hug thorn and rose bushes every chance i get.
she’s been consistently breaking skin and making me bleed every-time she bites and i’m really at a loss here.
she’s started really going for my face and this next part will sound funny unless it’s happening to you.
i cant wear pants because she has ripped 4 pairs of thick pj/ sweat pants of mine, 2 pairs of jeans and 5 sweat shirts/ shirts.
she pulled me to the ground today by grabbing my shorts and pulling them down then pulled them so hard while around my ankles i fell to the ground. then proceeded to bite and attack my face once i was on the floor.

she also will not listen to commands unless she wants to. we are trying to be consistent with what methods we use but how can i be consistent if she flat out ignores them?
i can go on and on but really looking for any advice you can give or i can’t keep her.

 

[reebern]

@justanothername Before she comes out of her crate put a slip lead on her. Bring her out of the crate and if she bites you, use the slip lead to stop her. Go about your business but anytime she bites she gets calmly yet firmly stopped. The leash stays on anytime she is out of the crate.

“How can I be consistent if she flat out ignores commands?”

Make her listen with the leash. Type “leash pressure dog training” into YouTube. You’ll find lots of videos.

But the first thing you need to do is provide an unpleasant consequence for biting you. Over and over again until she finds something else to do with her time.

 

[justanothername]

@reebern will be trying this thank you!

 

[yaboo]

@reebern I second the use of a lip lead. It’s less “stimulating” than a remote collar stimulation, and pressure on-pressure-off works with the dogs I have worked with that don’t back up, but instead turn on with the remote collar.

 

[anxioussleeper]

@justanothername

she [...] will not go after trainers like she does us.

So the issue is with you. You need to keep training for those trainers and learn through practice, with their guidance and by mimicking how they handle the dog.

 

[justanothername]

@anxioussleeper yea we spoke to our last about this and he said it’s because he’s a dog trainer that’s why she listens he smells like a dog and thinks like a dog, his words so she’s more inclined to listen to him. i’m looking for training classes that will let me handle her more than them only handling her. i know in group classes they do let you handle your dog but miss doesn’t have all her vaccinations yet so group classes are a few weeks out.

 

[1s4b3ll4]

@justanothername It doesn't sound like you are doing anything that shows her that the biting is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. (At 4mos old, the puppy privilege is gone and another dog would not be nice at all about unacceptable harassment. She is wired to be corrected for socially inappropriate things at this age, and it'll get harder if you don't utilize that. )

I suggest the muzzle grab procedure; help yourself to this handout that I snagged from a trainer. Alternately, just gently hold her jaw when she bites and don't give it back until after she is REALLY wanting it back, and then settles and resigns herself to your control of it. The game isn't fun anymore if she doesn't control when it starts and ends.

Overall, don't give commands you can't/don't enforce, have her work for things she wants, and have her earn her freedoms. Puppies shouldn't be running around the house like a whirlwind, doing whatever occurs to them with a human following behind cleaning up the messes. ;-)

 

[justanothername]

@1s4b3ll4 we have tried lightly holding her muzzle but she just thrashes around and works herself up more which kinda doesn’t work. the other issue we have is that she physically cannot settle outside of her crate she won’t lay down or anything if she’s not in the crate.
we are buying a play pen for her because yes we think she’s becoming entitled with the house even though she’s only allowed in the living room and kitchen

 

[1s4b3ll4]

@justanothername My brain came back to this, so I'm going to share one more thing. Since you (probably) have a bully mix, it's worth pointing out that they are usually worse about impulse control as pups, and also that it's MORE important to get that under control than with a less powerful and driven breed. You might find these suggestions helpful, esp the link on impulse control. You're giving her a chance after multiple people have already failed her; might as well give her the best shot possible to be a nice dog.

 

[1s4b3ll4]

@justanothername You actually hold the collar firmly while holding the muzzle, so they can't thrash around or wiggle away. Gentle, but FIRM.

Look into the "Sit on the Dog" exercise. The crate is easier to settle bc she knows the option to be wild is taken away, externally. She hasn't built up enough impulse control to manage herself internally yet. SOTD will help with that.

 

[clintpauljohnson]

@justanothername When is the biting happening?

At that age I keep puppies mostly in a pen or other puppy proofed area unless I am actively working with them. That might be playing with me with a toy, or practicing obedience/tricks, or practicing relaxation type behaviors (eg, bed stay, tethering, lying down with a chew, on leash and shaping settling, etc.) I don't typically let them loose in the house to choose their own adventure because that tends to be jumping on me biting me, chewing electrical cords, grabbing hair scrunchies, etc. Structure when young leads to freedom later on when good habits are established.

 

[justanothername]

@clintpauljohnson we’ve definitely gotten the play pen suggestion a lot so i think that’s the way we’re heading. she’s only allowed in the kitchen and living room sometimes bathrooms only if we are in there.
her biting is pretty much from the second she comes out of the crate at 6am till she goes to bed 8pm obviously she not just chomping 24/7 but we cannot move around in the house otherwise she gets offended and freaks out.

 

[onceawaretwiceempowered]

@justanothername If it makes you feel any better, my dog was horrible up to 4 months, 3-4 being worst (it’s a challenge boundary phase), and at 22 months he has a super duper soft mouth. He got adult teeth 4-5 months old, and after that it was hard to care. Didn’t hurt as much anymore.

I felt fully safe to wear nice clothes again at 1 year. In between the biting got less and less.

Reverse timeouts naps and time is my remedy.

 

[justanothername]

@onceawaretwiceempowered we’re hoping she’ll grow out of it and think she’s loosing teeth and yea the consensus has been she’ll grow out of the biting but i’m just trying to find ways to get her to be more gentle with her chomping.