Getting Started as a Breeder

[jwfletch]

Hi everyone,

I am interested in (one day) breeding my 2 y/o male Irish setter, and I want to make sure I'm going about this in a responsible way. So far, I know I need the following:

Health testing: Using what I found on the breed club's website, I'm planning to have him tested for the biggest areas of concern (hip dysplacia, autoimmune thyroiditis, and retinal atrophy) and register results with the OFA.

Titles: In the next few months, I think he'll have a fastCAT title and Canine Good Citizen. I'd love to do a field trial or barn hunt kind of event in the future as well and see how he performs in the field.

What else should I consider? (Mods - feel free to direct me to any previous posts or a wiki I may have missed.) Thanks!

 

[jasenismyname]

@jwfletch These are a great start. Ask your breeder for their recommendations!

Personally, if I were looking for a stud dog, I'd want field trial or conformation titles.

 

[kurat]

@jwfletch Tbh it’s way hard to start breeding with a male when you’re on your own. Not only do you have to do all the health testing, OFA submissions, etc. but you then have to find someone with a good quality female that has also done all the proper testing, and is willing to use your male. Most people with females like this already have access to tons of great males.

It’s much easier to start with a great female, do all your health testing, then go in search of the perfect male to breed with.

 

[lisanna]

@kurat Great response. Starting with a male is kind of like putting the cart before the horse. Every good breeding program starts with a quality bitch. And a kennels strengths are generally measured in the depth of their bitches more than the dogs. But the dogs can have a huge impact on a breed so they should definitely be held to a much higher standard.

 

[jwfletch]

@kurat

It’s much easier to start with a great female, do all your health testing, then go in search of the perfect male to breed with.

That does make sense... I've considered getting a well bred female in the future and starting by breeding them once or twice, but I def can not handle the training and care for 2 dogs quite yet.

 

[erniedavid]

@jwfletch If you can't handle the care and training for 2 dogs you FOR SURE can't handle being a breeder!!!

And as ultramermaid stated, it is much easier to start with a female, even consider buying one a little older and titling her. Having a stud dog is a tough gig! Most small breeders don't have one.

 

[caliisawake]

@jwfletch I’m going to piggy back off of this, but another attribute of an ethical breeder is that you’d be willing to take back any puppies you’ve bred at any point in their life for any circumstance. So if you sell the puppies and someone can’t keep them, they should be able to return them to you. If you don’t think you can handle multiple dogs at once, I would not get involved in breeding. Irish Setters can have pretty large litters too, so if any owners have trouble and need to return their dogs, you could have more dogs yourself than you bargained for! I hope this helps provide some insight! I appreciate you trying to breed responsibly!

 

[oldwoodsman]

@jwfletch Take a look at r/dogs Wiki on Identifying a Responsible Breeder

 

[maybeitsme]

@jwfletch Does his breeder know you're planning on breeding him? Do his family members have health testing registered with the OFA? Does he have full registration?

 

[walkinthewoods]

@jwfletch What's your main motivation? That'll help you figure out if the whole thing is going to be more trouble than it's worth!

If you mainly want to breed in order to get a puppy to keep that's as nice as your own dog and has similar qualities, consider getting another from your dog's breeder.

If you mainly want to make money, it's tougher, because owners of females have their choice of many very good dogs.

Is your dog better than the other options? Once you know what's out there, you'll have a better sense of that.

If you mainly just love the breed and want to contribute to its improvement, you also need to know what's out there so that you can determine whether breeding your dog is in fact going to improve it, or if the average out there is already higher.

 

[jwfletch]

@walkinthewoods I really appreciate this response. You've given me a lot to think about I absolutely love the breed, and the more I'm learning about the whole world of dog sports and breeding, I want to contribute in a meaningful way.

 

[xnxnmxosjiohidd9u8e92u]

@jwfletch I was once told that if you weren't trying to better the breed as a whole, you had no business breeding. It sounds like you want to better the breed. Getting performance titles on your dog is a great start. It's how I started in my breed.

First you need a mentor, specifically one that breeds Irish Setters. Where did you get your Irish Setter from? If it was from a responsible breeder who is a member of the Irish Setter parent club in your country, that's where you should start. I believe in having more than one mentor, not all of whom have to be breeders. I have mentors that show dogs in performance sports, I had mentors that were local breeders in my geographic area (because my breed mentors are hundreds of miles away) and of course, I have my breed mentors.

Speaking of parent clubs, you should join your parent club. If you are not already a member of a local dog sports club you should join one of those as well. One way to contribute to your breed and dogs in general is to volunteer to serve in dog clubs.

You should also attend your national specialty. Compete in Lure Coursing at the shows that host your National Specialty. Attend local conformation shows and watch the Irish Setters. Start talking to the people showing the Irish Setters.

And be aware that you might not be able to breed your dog. My first "foundation" bitch had a horrible top line when she matured and I decided not to breed her. A promising young puppy that I planned on breeding failed her eye exam right after getting her championship. That sort of thing is heartbreaking, but if you want to better the breed, you start by only breeding the best.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about getting started in breeding.

 

[davarr]

@xnxnmxosjiohidd9u8e92u Be careful calling fcat lure coursing. The hound people are pretty finicky about it.

 

[xnxnmxosjiohidd9u8e92u]

@davarr Sorry, I know nothing about FCAT or lure coursing.

 

[frankda4th]

@xnxnmxosjiohidd9u8e92u FastCAT is a 100 yard sprint, lure coursing is a 500+ yard course with turns. Lure Coursing is used to determine the hunting ability of sighthounds, since they can't really be used for their breed purpose safely at this point in time, especially not in North America.

Non-sighthound breeds CAN compete in lure coursing, but it's judged slightly differently, since they can't compete against another dog.

 

[walkinthewoods]

@jwfletch I'm glad. I wish more people would care this deeply.

There is a TON you can do to enjoy time with your dog and learn all about the breed (including its history and its future direction) without breeding. You can learn from experts and make informed decisions. Plus it's fun!

 

[dukedesu]

@jwfletch If I were in your shoes, and I did start with some males, I would do all of the things needed to get him health tested and take him into the ring and field. Then, if you still think he is a wonderful male after you have tested and tried to prove him, collect him for later use. If he is a great male, people with bitches will inquire. Otherwise, get a nice bitch from a good show or hunting breeder when you’re ready and prove her— do all the things you will do with your male. Male dogs are fertile for a while usually, but even if not, you’d have him on ice to use if you follow the plan above.

 

[steephenkarar]

@jwfletch You should check with the breeder that you got him from to make sure that you are allowed to breed him. If you bought him to show that should have been discussed during the screening process, but if your intention was to have him as a pet, there may be a clause in your breeder contract disallowing you from breeding. Make sure you cross all of your Ts and dot all of your Is from a legal/ethical standpoint.

 

[frankda4th]

@jwfletch First, check that you have permission from his breeder. If you don't have any kind of contract, I would be rethinking breeding him, as he may not have come from an ethical breeder, and very few ethical breeders would want to use him as a stud unless he is phenomenal in every way - temperament, structure, and working/field ability.

As someone who was interested in getting a Setter, I would be wanting conformation titles, ideally a Champion at least in BOTH UKC and AKC/CKC (depending on where you're located). I would also want field titles AND sport titles, such as nose work, rally and/or obedience, and agility. And ideally, those titles would be high level titles, not entry level. They are proof of trainability, biddability, good work ethic, and good drive.

From YOU as the stud owner, I would want to know WHY you want to breed this dog. What does he offer that another stud doesn't? What does he have that betters the breed as a whole? What kind of female would benefit from having him as a potential stud (ie what traits of his are outstanding enough that he could he potentially pair well enough to improve in the next generation)?

In complete honesty, starting with a stud - unless he is a TRULY remarkable dog in almost every way - is hard. Most bitch owners (myself included) have plenty of impressive pedigrees to choose from, and know our bitches and our goals well enough to have possible males picked out before the male is even ready to stud. Since he's currently an unproven male already 2 years old, I personally wouldn't even be looking at him as a possibility, if he were in my breed. Nothing against you as an owner, but I would be wondering why he's done nothing by the age of two, when there are lots of studs already Championed, sport titled, and field titled before their second birthday.

 

[aechceeaech]

@jwfletch If you don’t mind being up 24/7 for the first 2 weeks and stress , go for it , French bulldogs are a pain In the ass