German shepherd and toddlers

[brittneynt14]

So we adopted a sweet German Shepherd from our local animal shelter. She’s 5 and beautifully obedient. She’s very sweet, she doesn’t bark, she doesn’t react to other dogs however she’s not friendly towards our outdoor cat and has an issue with our toddlers. We have 4 boys ages 7,3,2 and 5 months. She loves the baby, she’s extremely gentle with him and only interested in giving him kisses, she’s also obedient and affectionate towards our older son. She does not like our other 2 though. We do not leave her alone with any of our children and our boys know not to approach her but to let her approach them. The issue is that they will be doing next to nothing and she will go after them. She scratched our 3yo in the face when he was getting down out of his chair and nipped our 2yo as he was getting on the couch. She was about 4ft from them when both of these incidents happened. Luckily they don’t have real injuries, the scratch was just red for a couple hours and went away and the nip left a small indent that also went away. She is not aggressive in the slightest towards my husband or I. She has lunged and fought with the cat twice, both also not sustained any injuries. Our cat is very protective and I do believe that she was in the instigator in the second incident but the first incident was isolated, they both reacted out of surprise. Overall I don’t plan to have them near each other considering she is an outside cat and only comes around us for pets or when she wants a treat.
My question is, is she going to be able to be trained to handle our children? I know some dogs just cannot handle kids at all but I do not want to give up on her. She’s our family and we love her and I’m willing to put in the work to train her. I’ve thought about crate training and muzzle training to get her accustomed but I’m open to other advice or what she would best respond to.
I’d also like to add that I asked a ton of questions before we adopted to begin with. We were looking for a well tempered, laid back and loyal dog that was good with children and they recommended our girl. I took my oldest with me to meet her and they got on just fine and I repeatedly asked if she would be okay with babies and toddlers and they said yes.

 

[faithfulfindings]

@brittneynt14 Sounds like she wants to herd your kids. But that's just out of your description.

Can you get a professional trainer to take a look at it? I highly recommend doing so.

You've to make it clear to her that it's not her business to do so.
You need to find something as a job for her that mentally exhausts her so she has no energy left to herd your kids.

 

[promethius9594]

@faithfulfindings This is the answer.. when i was a kid, one of our german shepards used to nip and try herd me, but it was trained put of him fast.. he ended up being the best german shepard my family ever owned. Wacking things with the front paws is a trait ive noticed in all our german shepards, especially with the cats.. (we have 2 kids, 2 dogs, 3 cats and a snake) best answer is training, if you feel its outside your bounds of expertise then get a professional to help.

 

[brittneynt14]

@faithfulfindings Thank you! Yes, I absolutely plan to get a trainer.
By job, what do you mean? Could you give me a few examples of

 

[faithfulfindings]

@brittneynt14 Well to put it simply any training like protection, search, agility, obedience, dog frisbee etc.

If you won't give her anything she will look for a job and then her genes will kick in and protect the family. That includes teaching kids to behave. And nibbing and using the paw is what females do to teach puppies to do and not do certain things.

Just let me guess here she will run around and get stressed when both young kids run in different rooms and she tries to keep an eye on both of them?

 

[brittneynt14]

@faithfulfindings Yes, pretty much. She shows plenty of signs when she gets to this point and I do remove her and we go play fetch in the backyard.

 

[faithfulfindings]

@brittneynt14 Yeah that's a sign of herding. She wants to protect and educate your kids. She seems to accept your oldest as old enough to be at least on the same pack level as she is. So she won't do much to him.
The baby is a baby for her so she most likely won't start before the baby starts crawling around.

What you can do is place your kids in different rooms. The main handler of your dog either you or your spouse needs to be with her. Let your kids really go crazy in those rooms where she can't see them. Every time she wants to go to them the one with her has to interrupt her and distract with something else. Like "No" "heel" "sit" if she obeys praise her and go on with the training.
Also every time she gets close to your kids pushes them with the nose blocks their way or pushes them around interrupt her with a "No"

 

[brittneynt14]

@faithfulfindings Thank you!!!!

 

[faithfulfindings]

@brittneynt14 Look at this Video it's a border collie but if you look for similar videos you will most likely notice that your dog does something similar.

This way you can learn to look for those signs and interrupt her.

Also watch out when people that are strangers for her approach your kids. She might react protective.

 

[brittneynt14]

@faithfulfindings Okay so, after watching her behavior and looking for triggers closely I’ve found a couple things.
1. She is definitely herding, if they aren’t in her site she’s anxious. The closer they are together the better she is.
2. She has an avoidance behavior when she’s in the same room with them and they’re interested in her. She will look at me for reassurance that she and they are okay.
3. Squeals equal an instant growl. High pitch kid screeches set her into fight, flight, avoidance.
4. She paws at them when they touch her things. I don’t mind this as much, my kids understand that no means no and that’s simply what she’s doing and they’ve both responded positively.
5. I’ve given her a job and she will ask to do it when anxious. Instantly takes care of the behavior.
6. She must check on all family members, especially when my husband has the baby. The baby is mine, she knows the baby is mine and if he’s not with me she will follow whoever has him.
7. She’s not reactive to my toddlers. She’s okay seeing them and passing them as long as they look and do not touch.

 

[faithfulfindings]

@brittneynt14 That's great. Now that you know why she behaves like that you can actually start to work. From here on you just have to find the perfect training and job for her or at least what works. Your observation that she looks for your confirmation is great. It's a great sign that she asks you for guidance.

As said watch out if strangers are around. High pitch screams of joy and fun might trigger protection thoughts keep this in mind to avoid critical situations. Just tell visitors about the situation and that you need some time.
As an example when my father in law was around and was wrestling with my kids my gsd got close and barked at him. He knows that it's not his business when I'm around but still showed his will to protect the family.

 

[brittneynt14]

@faithfulfindings We had a good day! No nipping, growling or lunging INCLUDING the cat!
We also met 4 (new to her) people today and she was perfect, zero issues. Even took commands from my father in law and let my dad take her toy from her mouth. I let her sit next to the kids while they ate(keeps the kids occupied and off of her), she sat quietly, did not beg for food, showed no signs of anxiety or agitation. She got plenty of praise and treats for good behavior.
My oldest also gave her commands and was able to feed her treats.
She did well, I’m quite proud of her. I don’t fully trust her yet, but this was a start.

 

[johncarlo]

@brittneynt14 She's taking her job of being their protecter very seriously. She's herding them. You will probably need a professional trainer that is familiar with herding breeds, but it should be a fairly easy fix. She just needs to learn her role

 

[quebase]

@brittneynt14 constant supervision is the way to go for now. correct her (redirect or say no or both) before she makes contact. my gsdmix completely leaves my toddler alone now but she may pet him when im standing right there. he is just not a kids kind of dog, and thats ok. older dogs from shelters are a gamble tbh. and she may never like your kids! try to have them feed her treats and dont let them on the couch or bed at the same time. and contact a trainer immediately because whether she means it harmfully or not, she could easily bite your child in the face. theyre a very mouthy breed and the toddlers faces are right next to theirs. but nipping is normal with GSDs so i dont think you have to rehome her.

 

[kevin003]

@brittneynt14 It’s hard to say if this is herding or reactivity to toddlers (perhaps due to unknown history before she ended up at the shelter) without video to evaluate. For now separate her from the children and hire a trainer asap. You might need to keep her strictly crated when not being trained or in a supervised space without the toddlers for a while until a trainer can help you figure this out. If she’s truly having issues being around toddlers, you may need to rehome because you don’t want nipping and scratching to escalate.

 

[brittneynt14]

@kevin003 This is a great idea. I wanted to muzzle and socialize but she slipped the muzzle and chewed the strap (it was a basket muzzle with the clip on the back and a loop to her collar, she chewed the collar strap) within minutes. So that went out the door quickly. I think a crate or being in a separate room would be best for the time being. I hopefully have someone coming out tomorrow to take a look.

 

[kevin003]

@brittneynt14 Make sure she has exercise and mental enrichment before crating since you don’t want to stress her out and make her worse. Good luck.

 

[kade]

@brittneynt14 I have 2 kids (and a third on the way) and we’ve had our 3 year old GSD since she was a puppy. I agree- sounds like herding. Here’s some stuff that works for us:

• We do balanced training with our shep : an e collar that we learned to use with a trainer (Do not self teach). This works well because it’s effectively a leash that can be used at a greater distance with more variables (kids).
• My dog is trained to CHILL in the house. We started small (crate), the expanded her space to the mud room, and then the whole downstairs. Inside she mostly chills.
• While chilling, I give her bones and “puzzles” like old towels and pillow cases tied up with treats inside or boxes.
• She’s not allowed in the kitchen when we eat, but the kids are allowed to give her dog-safe leftovers (eggs, rice, yogurt) when they are done, but she has to do a trick for it (mix of healthy boundaries and working for treats). Kids give dog treats but only for tricks!!!
• We have a big yard. Everyone is allowed to play outside. The kids can chase the dog (if she wants to be), but the dog CANNOT chase the kids. My 6 year old daughter plays fetch with her. We’ve had issues with her herding them in their little Jeep. E collar works with that (leave it). Other issue was when she was a puppy, she would occasionally steamroll the kids. Now we say “watch the kids” and she pays more attention to her surroundings. I teach her the kids names and say “go to so and so” and everyone gets a kick out of that.
• she’s awesome with my kids and my kids are VERY respectful of her. But she’s not perfect- honestly, I don’t let her near other kids… like she can be in public around kids but I don’t let anyone pet or play with her. When my kids have friends over, I put the dog away. It’s only for a few hours and while my kids are great with animals, other kids are not, so I don’t want to risk it.
• my dog has a strong preference for our older daughter too. I think they’ve just been besties for longer, and she does more for the dog like feeding and playing fetch. My 2 year old can be a little more unpredictable, but the dog is safe and patient when she occasionally gets booped or whatever.

Edited to add: I also have a cat and she is an aggressive psychopath. E collar kept the dog from the car when she was a puppy (leave it). Now the dog is fine but the cat remains a menace. I don’t really use the e collar anymore, the dog will just respond to leave it. The cat will sneak up and attack the dog while she sleeps

 

[kade]

A few other good dog/kid bonding games. Hide and go seek, two version: 1) dog in down stay, kids hide. Then I tell the dog to find them by name or 2) dog in down stay. Kids hide a toy for dog in the yard. Tell dog “go find it” and voila! Happy bonding.

 

[tirzah85]

@brittneynt14 Personally, after the amount of incidents/ attacks you've described, I would look at rehoming the dog to a child free home. The situation is not your fault, at all.