First steps when approaching dog breeding

[luli08]

Hi everyone! I'm new here and would love some input.

Getting a lovely puppy by the end of this year and I've recently been thinking about a long-term and far-off goal of getting into dog breeding. I have loved dogs all my life and I think it would be such a cool and rewarding hobby. However, I want to do it right! I'm going through a reputable breeder with health-tested show dogs for my puppy. I love her dogs and admire the goals she has for breeding. The breeder sells puppies with limited registration, but she has a clause in her contract stating that this can be reconsidered if the dog ends up being of breeding quality. She also mentions being able to help with conformation if the puppy is a show prospect.

I've read online that some breeders are touchy about the subject of registration, and I was wondering if this is something I should ask her about at all. I don't want to risk my relationship with the breeder, but it would be cool to talk with her about the possibility of getting a puppy that might be a show prospect. Having some mentorship from her would also be amazing. But on the other hand, I think I'd rather focus on getting a puppy that's going to be a wonderful match for me rather than a ribbon winner!

Maybe a more sane approach would be to go to lots of dog shows for the breed, find out exactly what I need to be looking for, and if my puppy seems to fit the bill, then have the conversation with the breeder about registration. If not, then I have a perfect companion, and I can always look for a show prospect later on. I doubt I can stop at one dog, anyway...

Sorry for the rambling -- would love to hear your thoughts and advice! Very much here to be educated.

P.S. If anyone has some tips for figuring out what judges look for in conformation events (short of going to events themselves, which I plan to do), I'd love to hear them. I've read some AKC guides, but they're just not all that helpful for a newbie.

TL;DR: Wanting to get into conformation but not sure how to approach the subject (if at all) with my breeder who generally sells puppies with limited registration (with exceptions, it seems).

 

[jimmyk]

@luli08 A responsible breeder shouldn’t be upset at the inquiry. They may or may not be receptive, but certainly should explain whichever answer they give. (Your sane approach should definitely be done anyway.) But if you’re buying a dog to show and possibly breed that should ALL be clearly discussed before you make a purchase.

 

[luli08]

@jimmyk Thanks for your response!

 

[davecb]

@luli08 I'd do a few things: one is join the national club for your breed. They should have a website, good education info, probably a decent magazine, a calendar of events such as specialties and supported entries.

And I'd talk to the breeder about co-owning. In my breed at least (Goldens) no one is going to sell you a bitch on full registration if you have not owned a Golden before. Or at least a decent breeder.

But they may be willing to co-own with you. If the breeder lives near you, they may offer to help groom and/or show the dog.

And I'd not be set 100% on breeding dogs: that's why I said join the national club and ask to co-own. Lots of people think that their first dog is the best dog ever of the breed, but then when they look back 10 years and a bunch of dogs later, sometimes they're happy that they didn't start breeding with that one.

In some breeds it's really hard to tell if an 8 week old puppy will actually be a show dog or not. In breeds with exact height or adult teeth requirements no one can tell for sure. So don't be disappointed when even with the best of intentions, a puppy doesn't work out.

Finally really read and read again and still again the standard for the breed. I can't tell you how often someone posts a picture of their puppy on FB and asks why their puppy isn't doing anything in the show ring. After the stunned silence in a group people will point out things that are clear DQ's in the breed, that the puppy or young adult has. So really really really know the breed.

 

[luli08]

@davecb I honestly really appreciate this take, and I agree. I think I might be getting a bit ahead of myself already thinking about showing/breeding. For now I think I'll just focus on being a good owner and maybe see if there are some other events that might be a good fit for my pup. Plenty of time to go to shows and learn all about how things work and if breeding is still something I'm interested in!

Thanks for the advice about the national club -- I'll look into that!

 

[davecb]

@luli08

For now I think I'll just focus on being a good owner and maybe see if there are some other events that might be a good fit for my pup.

If you get a dog, and put some real titles on the dog, your next dog will be easier to find. The next breeder will know that you are committed to dogs and not going to vanish in a few years.

 

[ninjapirate777]

@luli08 There is nothing wrong with expressing that you are interested in showing your puppy. If somebody came to me interested in a show puppy I would love to have that conversation. Everyone starts somewhere.

You sound keen and like you’ve done some research. If a breeder is not willing to engage in discussion of you getting a show prospect, I would go to a different breeder. You want to find one that you can build a relationship with and who will support you with kindness and patience. Be honest with what your ideas and goals are from the very beginning.

Like others have said it’s important to go to shows and specialties and expose yourself to people and knowledge. Contact the National breed club for referrals. But I don’t think you need to be an expert on the breed when you’re just starting out. It’s actually impossible to learn the nuances of structure and evaluation without hands on experience. The first few years of owning your first dog is when you learn the most. Breeders should be willing to sell a show prospect to new people who are enthusiastic and done some leg work. Your first dog probably won’t be a BIS winner. But the opportunities that that dog gives you will be your gateway to a future in the breed. You learn on your first one, and you get better on the second one.

My first dog was a show prospect, he taught me so much. We had lots of wins and lots of losses. And he brought me into the community and opened doors for me. As I learned with him, I realized he wasn’t what I wanted for my breeding program. He was a lovely, healthy dog who came from a fantastic, supportive breeder… but in the time I had him and networked I developed my eye for what I really wanted and that was a different bloodline from different breeders. I would not have been able to develop that eye before I had him. And each subsequent dog taught me more. So don’t be too hard on yourself, you sound like you’re on the right path. Talk to as many breeders as you can and ask lots of questions. Talk to lots of owners and ask opinions of different breeders. Some breeders appear to be reputable when they aren’t the best or aren’t great mentors. The right breeder for you is going to give you the sense that they are going to support you.

It’s important to know that even if you’re sold a show prospect puppy, nobody knows exactly how that puppy is going to develop and they might not live up to the potential they had as a puppy. In that case you would have established yourself a bit in the community and you can try to do better for your second dog.

Save the idea of breeding for way down the road. You need to learn the breed first and truly discover if breeding this breed is right for you. Breeding is a huge amount of work and responsibility. Learn and experience the breed before you make that decision.

If you are a sincere puppy buyer who is keen on showing and done some leg work, if a breeder won’t entertain letting you have registration with or without a co-ownership… I would go to someone else. You don’t have to mention registration when talking to the breeder, just express your keen interest in showing.

Your question about choosing judges… don’t worry too much about that at first. Learn to show your dog well and get all the practice you can. This can take some time. You will learn about judges as you go along… choosing judges can be very breed-specific too.

 

[luli08]

@ninjapirate777 Thank you so much for this lovely comment super encouraging. I think I really do want to spend some time getting to know people in the community and the breed itself. I have plans to go to an agility event near me this month just to meet some people and see if I like the vibes. I'd love to go to a conformation event soon as well. Right now, I'm just happy to learn and be mentored (and maybe get my pup involved in an event that's super fun for both of us!). We'll see where I go from there!

 

[ninjapirate777]

@luli08 Good luck to you!

 

[kimx]

@luli08 i would be open an honest with your breeder about your plans and if they flat out say no and/or don’t have a dog that they’ll even let you show in confo i would find a different breeder.

 

[sustainableblueberry]

@luli08 Before you get your puppy, I would highly recommend reaching out to your local all breed club/conformation club and seeing what it’s about. Check here to find clubs near you. My club has monthly meetings, and we do confirmation classes to learn dog handler skills. Even if none of the members of that club have the breed you are looking for, this is a valuable resource for you to network with the breeders and handlers in your community. Let them get to know you, and the dog community is actually pretty small and they may know some breeders in neighboring communities that come to the events to compete.

Second, when you find your breeder, be upfront form the start you are looking for a show prospect. Do not be put off if your breeder requires a co-owner situation, or if you have to wait til the perfect puppy is produced. If you don’t mention that you’re looking for a show prospect, they may place a puppy with you that is pet quality. Pairing dogs even with outstanding pedigrees, most pups will be “pet quality” and occasionally you have one that wows you. Asking for co-owner situation is common especially if you have someone who is a total novice. The breeder will co-own the dog with you and help you with their knowledge and it also prevents people from saying that they want a show dog then never showing and then producing pups from that dog.

 

[luli08]

@sustainableblueberry Thank you for the advice! I'll definitely look into clubs near me. I want to learn more, and I think it would also be cool to have the chance to meet people who love dogs as much as I do!

I appreciate your recommendation of co-ownership. Honestly, I think the mentorship part of that appeals to me a lot!