Dog reactive around home

[bolarint]

My partner and I own a doodle in the Boston area who is struggling with reactivity in/around our home. Thankfully the reactivity is limited to other dogs and we have not had any issues with humans, but living in an apartment and in a busy neighborhood still makes this very challenging.

Little background:

1. We worked with a trainer on basic obedience starting from when she was about 3 months old until about 8 months old, at which point that trainer moved and so we stopped. She's never really struggled with any of that.
2. We introduced her to the e-collar around 7 months old, and have continued to train with it since. She's about 2 years old now.
3. We tried working on the reactivity with a trainer this last fall, and while it seemed we had made some progress with it, it's been difficult to schedule appointments with this trainer and most of the progress we made has been lost.

In my opinion, the root of the issue is that there's no reliable way to train against a circumstance that i have no control over. Without another dog in our hallway or something similar, there's never any reactivity, and there's no safe/fair way to put another dog in this situation.

I'm wondering a few things:

1. If anyone has had any success training this in the past and what tools they used to help?
2. If anyone in the Boston MA area has a trainer they've used for similar issues and would recommend? I wouldn't say we disliked the previous trainer at all, but it was challenging to schedule with them and i'm always open to other trainers/help
3. Any other tips/experience with this issue that might help?

Overall, as i'm sure everyone says, she's a really great dog. Good listener with basic obedience, great off leash recall both with and without the e-collar, and generally a pretty friendly pup who has no issues anywhere else except around the house.

 

[thoushaltnorkill]

@bolarint Could you add more details - what does the reactivity look like? Just give some examples.

 

[bolarint]

@thoushaltnorkill So generally the reactivity looks like her lunging and barking in a fairly aggressive way. She's on leash at this time, so the lunge doesn't really do anything other than amp her up more, but my guess is that the restraint of the leash really just amps her up more.

Sometimes it manifests as her just becoming really stiff. And occassionally it's happened where we're caught in a narrow hallway and we pass a dog and she's "fine" in terms of her not making noise, but as soon as the dog goes to sniff her (even though we're just trying to quickly move by) she'll snap and loudly bark and lunge again.

Obviously I'm not a professional, but from the limited experience I do have with this it doesn't seem to me like she's actually trying to cause any harm, moreso just trying to be intimidating and to clearly communicate she's not excited to have this dog around.

 

[thoushaltnorkill]

@bolarint What's her reaction distance, ie how close should the dog be for her to get tense? Is she ok when away from home, what's her behaviour like then? Is she ok when away from home and you're stationary, eg sitting on a bench?

 

[bolarint]

@thoushaltnorkill Reaction distance is typically pretty far away, but it varies. I'd say generally it's anything inside of 20 feet is going to be an issue, but certainly inside of 10.

Her behavior away from home is usually perfectly fine, she loves hanging out and playing with dogs when we are on walks, but she can get a little weird about dogs approaching us if we are all laying down on the grass.

Generally, my partner and I are just pretty cognizant of the situations she does not do well in and will avoid them. For instance, if we are laying in the grass with her, and we notice someone has an off leash dog that doesn't look very well controlled, we will just stand up and begin sort of moving around so in the event that that dog approaches we don't have any issues.

 

[thoushaltnorkill]

@bolarint Ok, so sounds like territorial aggression, probably fear-based.

There are multiple method to work with reactivity. Whatever method that worked for you with your trainer is good (I assume there's some degree of positive reinforcement involved), you know how to use it, so continue doing it. You want to apply this method to situations which are similar in principle (like the same territorial agr), and trigger initially very slight reaction, work through this reaction, then slowly make the situation be more and more similar to your main problematic scenario.

In your case - start camping somewhere with few dogs around, like laying on a grass as you said, but try to find a place where they wouldn't come too close, so that the reaction is really really small. Use your method. As you start seeing improvements - start varying places, bench instead of grass, outdoor cafe, busy street etc. At some point start camping closer and closer to your home. As you get really close to your home, you'll probably need to change your technique somewhat, like add more basic obedience, but the preparation work will make it easier.

Your moving around response may not necessarily be the right one, as it might tell your dog that you are as worried as she is, ie you might inadvertently confirm her suspicion. But I can't say for sure, it's just a possibility. I would most likely calmly stayed put and dealt with her reaction.

 

[bolarint]

@thoushaltnorkill Appreciate you taking the time to write that up, definitely some good tips in there about practicing this first outside the home and then moving closer

Curious if you’ve got advice on what to do other than the walking around if a dog is going to approach unwanted? The issue is that we live in a city, and it’s not always easy to avoid poorly managed dogs

Also, the training we did in the past with this involved using the e-collar to simply break concentration on the other dog, and then immediately treat and praise when she broke concentration and continue treating and praising as she continued to pay no attention to the dog or glanced at the dog and did not react

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@bolarint Reactivity is fear based. Using an e-Collar is a negative element and can escalate the anxiety driving the fear/reactivity in reality. When did the reactivity begin?

If you can work on the basics, like getting the dog to focus on you, to "touch" where you use a treat to reward the touch of their nose to the palm of your hand, and get them to lay down, a lot of times, positions can influence the anxiety elements.

if you repeat getting them to "touch" and focus on you, in various settings, so they learn to ignore others, it can deeply impact their anxiety in a positive way, which can reduce reactivity.

 

[bolarint]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Do you have any reading material or anything I can consume that might help me better understand some of this? I’m genuinely interested, I’ve never seen her as a dog that has anxiety, but it’s certainly possible that I don’t know how to interpret that in a dog

 

[usernasanxiety]

@bolarint I’m in the Boston area. I’m wondering if I know who your trainer is/was.

Redditor is not wrong about the e-collar. If not conditioned properly, it can exacerbate the issue. At a minimum, you want to work with a trainer who is LIMA (least intrusive, minimally aversive). This isn’t to say you shouldn’t use a balanced trainer but any trainer that starts with aversive training is going to make me pretty skeptical.

I have a few recommendations for trainers for you depending what area you’re in.

I work with trainers regularly, both for my own dogs and as a volunteer with others’ dogs/puppies.

Please DM me if you’d like some recommendations on trainers.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@bolarint a) it's a doodle, of course it's a neurotic mess

b) there are plenty of ways to train various circumstances but you have to want to do it.

 

[tbdude65]

@bolarint Dealing with a similar issue with my doodle.

Game changer for us has been consistently practicing the hang out hack to work on general desensitization in and around our home, and in the car. Also, working with a trainer who specializes in obedience and reactivity; they can create distractions for your dog with their dog in a safe and controlled manner.

You can search for dog trainers in your area through the Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers website. If you have any connections to doggy daycares or pet sitters it would be worth asking around too.

 

[bolarint]

@tbdude65 Curious, what is the “hang out hack”? I’m not familiar with it, but if it worked for you I’d love to learn more about it

 

[tbdude65]

@bolarint The goal is socialization from a distance that your dog is comfortable with. You can do the hang out hack anywhere, but start somewhere with lots of space and few triggers. Sit down, then wait for your dog to sit or lay down. Anytime that they hear anything or look at anything-a person walking by, wind blowing the leaves, a car-without barking, they get a treat. You don’t need to give them a lot of commands, it’s just to let them see what bothers them from a distance and they get a treat for acknowledging it. You can start doing this for 30 minutes a day; lower the time if it’s too challenging or move somewhere busier or closer if it’s not challenging enough.

If you have a friend with a friendly dog or work with another trainer, you can ask them to walk their dog back and forth, across the street from where you’re sitting, for example. You may have to adjust the distance or length of time depending on how it goes.

 

[bolarint]

@tbdude65 Interesting, that makes a lot of sense. She can sometimes get a little antsy, so after a few minutes would just stand up and walk around or start sniffing the grass. In your experience, did you try and "correct" that back into some sort of neutral position? or does the fact that she's not concerned with her surroundings indicate she's not stressed?

 

[tbdude65]

@bolarint Ideally, she would make the choice to settle again on her own. If it were my dog, I would let him sniff for a minute or two then ask him to sit or lay down and reward that.

 

[yakuda]

@bolarint Try going to group classes and sit way in the back. To build up to this you may need to muzzle train, and I’d highly recommend teaching your dog to settle on a mat near to you. Talk to the trainer first about this and maybe do a private lesson to introduce your dog. Swap the e collar for a prong and a treat bag. Fill your treat bag with semi moist dog food that comes from a roll, use a ziploc bag to line the pouch. Reward your dog not only for completing the obedience tasks but for settling in class.

Also tbh I don’t think e collars are a good idea for general obedience let alone reactivity. Personally the only thing they’re good for to me is recall off leash which your dog shouldn’t be doing anyways.

But basically you need to find predictable ways to expose your dog to other dogs. Not random exposures.