Curious

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rose3279

New member
Hi all!

I'm a hobbyist/curious about perhaps breeding my male Golden Mountain Dog. His parents are a AKC Golden Retriever (dam) and Bernese Mountain Dog (sire). He's an excellent specimen with a remarkable personality. He's sensitive, gentle, and freakishly well-behaved for an in-tact male. On top of that, he's striking. His health is excellent, and he's developing at a good pace.

So as someone curious about this, I was wondering if I could hear from some of y'all about what to consider about putting him, a mixed breed, up for stud. I should mention that last I checked, Golden Mountain Dogs aren't AKC recognized, so I don't know off-hand what to do around showing him or getting him out there. Any tips from mixed/designer breeders it definitely helpful!

Thanks!
G
 
@rose3279 I’m not trying to be harsh, but these are some of the struggles that prevent many designer mix breeders from following into the ethical category (at least in my book). I’m glad you are open/willing to complete all necessary health testing- that’s half the battle.
 
@rose3279 Proving good temperament is the hardest hurdle you will encounter. Without an unbiased third party examination- the puppy buyers have to take your word. Kennel blindness is very real. We all think our dogs are the best, but does that make them worthy of breeding?

Because he is a mix, there is no breed standard to compare him to, and no events to “prove” be meets those standards. The purpose of such events (conformation, agility, hunt trials, etc) is to show that the dog can perform both structurally and with good temperament.
 
@donnags1964 Heard!

This is a potentially foolish question, how do I find an unbiased evaluation? I have the word of the doggy daycare staff, and just people on the street we meet. Is there an "official" way to test that?
 
@donnags1964 Good to know! I'm so new to all of this, I judge his temperament by barking, obedience, domineering behaviors, prey drive, how he socializes with other dogs and with people, and how he deals with things that frustrate him. Since Goldens and Berneses are considered family dogs, I probably assumed those qualities are what I should look at.
 
@rose3279 You are asking all the right questions.

While they are traditionally known as family dogs (great ones at that) their purpose are both sporting and working. Their original purpose is the reason for their costs, structure, temperament etc.

Although he isn’t able to compete in conformation, you could title him in other venues: agility, rally, or obedience. These titles require having multiple unbiased proctors examine your dogs movement and/or temperament.

While it’s still not perfect in my eyes, I much rather see mixed breeds have titles and complete health testing, vs nothing at all.
 
@rose3279 Having lots of video footage of your dog in different situations is a good way to prove temperament!

E.g. Dog doing tricks in the backyard, dog recalling off other dogs, dogs doing tricks in a park, dog hanging out calmly on a patio, dog in a busy urban setting, dog hanging out calmly with other dogs, etc.

There are no tests or third party evaluations for companion dogs that REALLY prove if a dog is a good companion. The same is true for purebreds.
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast Ergh, tests are pretty limited in general. They're one offs. Even official temperament tests like Volhardt shouldn't be considered conclusive.

I have a dog who shouldn't be bred because of general anxiety and noise phobia, but he'd pass a CGC and manages trial environments. On paper he's a great breeding candidate.
 
@rose3279 A good start to finding an unbiased third party opinion on temperament would be to do a Canine Good Citizen Test. Go from there as recommended.
 
@wamiti CGC is great, but it’s a one a done event. Puppy’s as young as 6 months often pass. Personally, I don’t think this is enough of a title to prove structure/temperament of potential breeding dog.
 
@donnags1964 Absolutely. I concur. I personally don't take the test with my dogs until at least 2 to 2.5 years to test their training and public access abilities. This last time I took the test was with my current service dog, and it was taken as her public access test, not as a breeding temperament test (she's spayed anyway). However, in my experience anyway, people at CGC events are very helpful and likely to recommend further temperament testing.
 
@donnags1964 The CGC is a good baseline if taken at breeding age in my opinion, however. Here is why - if a dog cannot pass the CGC, it should not be bred. In my own dogs, if they do not pass the CGC, I re-evaluate, re-train, re-test until I see no further avenues. But I would not keep them intact after the first or second fail. Of course, further testing to evaluate temperament would be absolutely necessary in passing dogs, as I too agree that the CGC is not a tell all for breeding temperament.
 
@kowon From the AKC website:

Who Can Participate in CGC?

CGC is open to all dogs–purebred and mixed breed. There are no age minimums or limits for participating in the Canine Good Citizen program, because yes, you can always teach an old dog new tricks!

With that being said, we also know that training a puppy can be very different than training an adult dog. Check out our specialized training program for puppies, AKC S.T.A.R. Puppy, which teaches the basics to get your puppy off to a good start and is an excellent first in-person training class.
 
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