Buying a puppy from a breeder COI question

[dynaramaurer]

Seeking some advice in regards to poodle puppies. There is a breeder in my town, that breeds poodles of various sizes and golden doodles. Not a backyard breeder and is in my opinion very honest and reputable. She has a litter due in the next few days.

The mother is listed as a petite miniature at 11 pounds and 12 inches tall, tri parti color in black white and reddish brown. With the following details :

Ziva’s Embark DNA Results are as Follows: COI 9%

Ziva is clear of the following genetic diseases associated with small poodles: VWD, PRA-PRCD, HEXB, NEWS, SLC13A1.

Her Coat and Coat Color Traits are: Ee, KyKy, Intense Red Pigmentation, AtAt, DD, NN, BB, Ssp, mm, FF, TT, CT, TT.

The father is 5 pound toy, red toy poodle. With the following details:

Flyer’s Embark DNA Results are as Follows: COI 8%

Flyer is clear of the following genetic diseases: VWD, PRA-PRCD, HEXB, NEWS,SLC13A1

His Coat and Color Traits Include the Following: ee, KBKy, Intermediate Red Pigmentation, ayat, DD, BB, Ssp, mm, FF, TT, CT, TT

On Body Size, Flyer carries 3 “smaller”, 1 “Intermediate”, and 1 “Larger”.

Will this paring produce healthy puppies? My google searches tell me that 8% and 9% COI are not ideal so I'm wondering if putting in a deposit on this litter is a bad idea. Thank you!

 

[chrishudges]

@dynaramaurer I would go to the national poodle club of America website and chose from their breeders referral list.It sounds like your dealing with a backyard breeder.It’s not worth the risk.

 

[discussdocs]

@dynaramaurer The average genetic COI in Embark’s database for a standard poodle is 14.7% so I’m guessing 8-9% for a small poodle would be considered more diverse than the average. Note that just because sire and dam have 8-9%, doesn’t mean puppies will result in that range. If they have overlaps, then I believe puppies could end up with higher %. If both dogs are Embark tested, they have a tool that can predict the possible COI% that the pair would produce.

Poodle Genetic COI:

https://www.facebook.com/embarkforbreeders/photos/a.362330434465030/910608299637238

Also want to note that Embark does genetic COI, which is different from pedigree COI. Genetic COI is the more accurate measure. I’m assuming most online searches will reference COI in terms of pedigree COI.

Even though those are the health conditions that are highlighted for relevant to the breed, Embark runs testing for many more health risks. Some breeders tend to ignore these as they’re not “breed-relevant”, but it’s good to be aware of them. I’d ask about whether the dogs tested as carriers/positive for other things. Note, low ALT is not a health risk and is not concerning to see on health results, and is common for poodles and many breeds (just more of a FYI item).

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@dynaramaurer If your breeder has not done the health clearance testing (Embark is not health testing, it a tool for breeders), then you are dealing with a less then reputable breeder. You should have registered name and links to OFA Testing not Embark. Health test that should be done are (giving toy and mini as that is what you are asking about):

TOY POODLES

DNA Test for prcd-Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) from an OFA-approved laboratory.

Yearly Eye Exam by a boarded ACVO veterinary ophthalmologist.

Patellar Luxation: OFA Evaluation.

MINIATURE POODLES

Same CHIC requirements as Toy Poodles with the addition of:

Hip Dysplasia: OFA or PennHIP Evaluation.

The PCA Foundation strongly recommends the DNA test for Miniature Poodle Dwarfism

(Osteochondrodysplasia) to avoid breeding two carriers to each other and producing puppies

affected with this deforming and crippling disorder. Research suggests that about 10 percent of

Minis carry the mutation that causes this disease and that it is not limited to a few bloodlines.

Educate yourself on what a responsible breeder is and how to find one there is a great WIKI on the r/dogs sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/wiki/identifying_a_responsible_breeder/

Reach out to the Poodle Club of America Breeder Referral to start your search for a reputable breeder: https://poodleclubofamerica.org/breeder-referral/

From what you have written, I believe you can and should find a better breeder.