Any tips for recall off leash for my deaf acd?

[pt_barnum]

Hey everyone! I’ve posted here before but I wanted to get a little insight if I can.

My boy Cody is deaf, and has a really hard time with leashing. He’s great about putting on his gear (we have a deaf dog labeled harness back clipped to a collar for safety when on walks). But as soon as you try to pick up his leash he freaks out.

We had a trainer who had us using aversives on him so he still has a lot of trauma from those methods, which i think is why he doesn’t like the leash. Any time we go out or back in, he bites me, lunges at me, ends up starting a scuffle with our other dog etc. The only time he doesn’t do it is during walks or training, since I believe he sees it as work.

Today I took a risk and left his leash on, but allowed him to freely move on his own when he had to go inside. He stayed right with me, and when he began to stray a bit I signaled to the house to go inside. He walked up the stairs, sat and waited. I have tried it a few more times and he is great every time (better actually than with the leash despite training). I want this to become a regular thing as we live in a quiet area but I need to know how I can effectively recall. We tried a vibration setting on our e-collar before and it would startle him badly. So I’m not sure what else I can even do, but he seems alot happier off. Any thoughts or tips would be appreciated!!

Edit: he has near perfect recall in the yard, but MUST finish whatever it is he’s doing before he follows through

 

[falconeye]

@pt_barnum I think you need to really work through his issues with the leash. I know that's not the most appealing answer, but recall training is usually practiced with a long line anyway. Maybe you can experiment with using a new longer leash (like 10ft) and slowly condition him to it, reaching for it and rewarding him for being calm at first and slowly working your way to picking it up and walking with him out the door. It's hard to know how he's feeling without being there, but regardless just remember that slow is fast!

Recall training is hard in general, but it's next level with a deaf dog. I would personally never have been able to let my deaf cattle dog off leash outside of a fenced area. She had a host of behavioral issues that would make it impossible to begin with, but even if she didn't, I probably would never be comfortable with it.

 

[pt_barnum]

@falconeye Thank you for responding! We definitely do work on this as well, but I was just curious if there were any other tools outside of what we had already tried to get him better at recall. I might try to get a different leash like you suggested, it’s tough to find one he hasn’t destroyed but we’re working on it and he’s definitely gotten a lot better as time has passed

 

[falconeye]

@pt_barnum I get it! Regardless of the tool, if he finds it aversive, it's aversive. I'm doing something similar to you with the harness. My pup hates his current harness, so I bought something different enough that we can start over very slowly. I bring it out a few times a day and use high value treats. Sometimes you have to experiment what they respond to best without making it a negative experience. Usually it's best to keep things very calm, short, and positive. But sometimes it works better to make it into a fun game. Just depends on the situation.

If your dog destroys his leash, keep this new one out of his reach at all times and bring it out only when you are training. Make it super positive and then eventually develop an exit/enter routine. You said your dog is okay on leash once he's in work mode so once he's okay with you picking up the leash, make crossing a threshold (like leaving the house) a predictable routine. My dog knows that when we go out for a walk, he needs to calmly sit in a certain spot by the door until I release him to exit. I'm not an expert, but hopefully this gives you some new ideas. Sometimes I just need to be given advice that I already know to help me push through. And definitely get a long line and do the same conditioning!

 

[adam247]

@pt_barnum If you have successfully trained his gear you should be able to train the leash back as well. If he doesn't use a harness I would start with that. He might have bad history with neck related.

If he gets his harness have the leash already attached. Make sure the leash is out and visable, not attached, alot or all the time so he can become comfortable with it. Id recommend it be in the sofa or near his food. I keep one leash at the food, one at water and one on my sofa. I play with it often. Moving it around, clipping it to nothing, holding it and just generally touching it with no intention of using it on the dog.

I have it attached to my waist and dangling when prepping their food or my own. When we are in the yard and when we play. Once they are comfortable I start holding it and petting them. Petting them with it, clipping it near them. And build from there.

Then eventually dragging it near them. Having them wear it, just dragging etc.

While you didn't ask for training tips, having a dog off leash while he doesn't have a guaranteed recall is a large risk to him and other dogs. I have worked exclusively with feral 'untouchable' dogs for most my my adulthood and have counter conditioned numerous dogs for leash related issues. I know is seems like an impossible task but it's REALLY worth it. Part of our jobs as owners/handlers/family members is to prepare our dogs for whatever life could toss them through and it's highly likely that at some point in time he's going to NEED to be on a leash. If you do the extra work now it will ensure he had a better time long term if something out of your control happens. Example could be a fire, if he's in the house and he gets saved and you are not there chances are they will loop a leash on him. For an already traumatic event of being handled of strangers, fire, all that commotion adding on top not being leashl trained would be even more stress!

Other than a long line the default would be a vibration collar, there are a few with different level setting 1-100, where most ones just have a default max setting which startles most dogs. All dogs I have worked with prefer a stim to a vibration. They are considered adverse.

Being deaf means he would have to remain constantly looking at you to sure you could recall/command him and that's a bit of an unrealistic goal imo!! It wouldn't allow him to have fun sniffing around and exploring when walking.

 

[helendate]

@pt_barnum I have a deaf, 4 year old ACD. She’s very food motivated and this has helped. I’ve taught her two hand signals that are easy to see at a distance for her recall. At a short distance, I use a simple hand wave towards myself. At larger distances I stick my arm straight out horizontally and tap my right thigh. She sees this from anywhere and it works great on off leash trails. I did this by treat reinforcing. You come to my side? Get a treat. Every time. I started training this by treating her anytime she walked along side me, on leash or off. I also then moved on to having her sit and stay in a yard, walking a distance, and treating as she came to me when I signaled. ACDs are smart af and it only took her a month. I’ve used a vibration collar before but meh, she didn’t react to it after a while.

 

[kale100]

@pt_barnum Vibrating collar.

 

[pt_barnum]

@kale100 Any recs for brand or what to look for? I’ve had trouble finding ones that are less intense of a vibration

 

[igortachkent]

@pt_barnum Dogs sometimes get easily distracted so having one that is strong enough to bring their attention back to you can be vital.

 

[azknight]

@pt_barnum My ACD mix is deaf too. I just searched on Amazon for “dog vibration collar without shock” and bought one with good reviews. It’s been working great for over a year. I believe the brand is ‘paipaitek’, and he now only responds to vibration levels higher than 3. Now searching it up again, I may upgrade to other brands with a smaller vibrator thingy, lol.

 

[azknight]

@pt_barnum My ACD mix is deaf too. I just searched on Amazon for “dog vibration collar without shock” and bought one with good reviews. It’s been working great for over a year. I believe the brand is ‘paipaitek’, and he now only responds to vibration levels higher than 3. Now searching it up again, I may upgrade to other brands with a smaller vibrator thingy, lol.