14 week old german shepherd X collie won’t sleep

[greenracoon505]

I started off doing a 5-day sleep challenge thing from my local dog trainers and it seemed to work.
Part of this training was one hour awake one hour asleep for a couple days and then gradually increase this time…has others used this method before?

I’m at a stage where she is awake for an hour and ‘asleep’ for two hours. The hour awake and hour asleep before transitioning to two hours were different…it worked amazing. She would be so tired out from play that she slept the other hour completely and i could roam around and do stuff without whining. I live alone and can’t keep doing 1 hour awake - 1 hour asleep as I aways have stuff I need to do and one hour is just not enough time.

Anyway, my puppy just does not fully settle - day or night, and it’s making her bitey all the time.
If i’m in the room whilst she’s in her crate, she will ‘appear’ to be asleep sometimes but is always backwards and forwards in her crate positioning herself. The moment i sit up from the couch, she gets up and watches me through any little gap she can use to see me. The second i leave the room, she whines. If i’m gone for more than a couple minutes, it will develop into a little bark. When i come back in, she stops and will lay down.

She also seems happy to take herself in the crate when she has a kong.

She also does not settle on her own if i was to leave her out and get her to self settle. She just does not quit playing even when she’s completely out of energy, she will find ways to keep going, hence enforced crate naps.

Does anybody have any advice on where to go from here? End goal is I want to be able to have her sleep peacefully without her crate and in my bedroom, with my other dog and cat and be able to leave bedroom for toilet for me, for example, without her following me or whining.

Thank you!

EDIT: She also in the last week started developing panting (she always has water available) but it seems to be more from about 4-5pm onwards and will last whilst she’s awake and not doing anything

 

[caroburgh]

@greenracoon505 So herding breeds are high strung and prone to become overtired and unable to settle down, in my experience. I’m from a country where we don’t use indoor crates so I can only tell you what works for me. When I’ve had puppies that get like this I will just do nothing. With the previous one I’d shut the blinds, close the door and just sit down somewhere and not interact until he fell asleep. Nothing happened, there were no toys, no fun distractions, he didn’t get any input from me, I was just as boring as possible while doing my own thing. With my current one I had him sleep while I worked. Again, shut the door, nothing in here, had a bed under the table and he’d eventually go sleep there. I could move around somewhat and he’d wake up, but because nothing fun happened he’d go back to sleep. Personally my puppies have preferred taking longer naps and being awake longer, the 1 hour awake and 2 hours asleep have never worked for me.

It seems to me, who’s unused to crate training, that you need to separate crate training and sleeping. She’s anxious being in her crate and knows that when she falls asleep, you’ll leave her alone. Panting is usually a sign of stress. Rather leave her while she’s doing something fun in the crate or stay in the room and throw rewards into the crate when she’s being calm.

 

[readyforwhatcomes]

@caroburgh Just want to follow up on this

With my herding breed these tactics are impossible because as a pup if I left him nothing to do he’d FIND something to do. Crate and pen were the only options

What I will wholeheartedly agree with is you’re tackling two problems here: reducing crate stress (aka making pup like the crate) and training the pup to go to sleep. As commenter stated, you can separate these two.

Our pup refuses to sleep or be alone in the crate unless absolutely exhausted - but would sleep and entertain himself in a play pen or a safe room we had him sequestered in.

Just keep at it and keep your sanity.

I have a herding shepherd mix now for the first time in maybe 15 dogs I’ve trained in my lifetime. He is the hardest. He has no off switch. He pants instead of relaxing when he’s over tired or over stimulated or under tired or understimulated. You can work on this but chances are you will always have a dog that is “on”. The only time mine shuts off is after 5 mile runs (he’s six months old so I try to avoid too much exercise but sometimes his body needs a workout similar to what he was bred for). You can manage this as a puppy and you do need to work on “settle” as a command/learned technique - HOWEVER - make a plan now. Make a plan to how you’re going to exercise this dog HARD for 2-4 hours per day. Start running as a hobby. Train the dog on a bike. If you have land and a yard get a four wheeler or dirt bike. Look into agility or other dog sports. This dog is going to need a LOT of exercise. She may never fully settle. You also may have a not ethically bred one (I found mine abandoned in a field so no chance lol)

 

[caroburgh]

@readyforwhatcomes Ah, that’s why you have to have nothing for them to do! Like nothing on the floor, lift your feet up so they can’t bite you, have an indestructible bed. I know they can still find things to do like REMOVING THE WALLPAPER which my previous idiot did in one moment I looked away and then learned that was a fantastic way to get my attention. But I totally get your point, in case your dog will find a way to entertain themselves, you have to enclose them somehow. But you also need to identify the point before they get overtired and destructive, which can take time. It’s much easier to stop it before puppy has gone too far into hyper mode.

Also for you! You don’t need to exercise your dog 4 hours a day. One of my previous dogs, the love of my life, was a workhorse. He’s the one that removed the wallpaper. I worked with a trainer for 18 months to tech him how to calm down and find his “off button”. (It was the first thing I started training with current young dog of same breed). But the thing that wore him out and wear all dogs out is mental work. We did tracking, blood tracking, searching for people, competitive obedience, nosework, freestyle, he helped me around the house etc. I’ve never had a better working partner. If I tired him out completely a couple of times per week with focused work he was fine the rest of the time. I never had to walk 4 hours a day unless I wanted to. If you exercise you dog this much you’ll only get an extremely strong and fit dog, which is great if that’s what you want! But then it’ll take even more exercise to wear them out. Mental work is far more useful, especially for a smart dog. 1 hour or focused competitive obedience training (with small breaks) will wear them out just as much as a 3 hour hike.

 

[readyforwhatcomes]

@caroburgh A lot of dogs need to be taught to shut off.

Some breeds need a lot of exercise to be fulfilled.

Not a one or the other situation. Might not be her dog. But people should be prepared to provide what breeds need - especially if their dog was bred to work for hours (hers is a mix of two dogs bred to work on their feet for hours)

With your dog - you also just waited for him to get older lol. This dog will not always need these hours. He will grow and mature and need less (around the two year mark which sounds like where you were). Of course you need to work on settling - but you also said exactly what I said. Your dog has been in a variety of mental and physical stimulating events. That was my advice. It’s interesting your story supports my initial comment? I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue here. You did exactly what I advised OP. To a tee in fact.

I have several dogs. Not all need the same amount of exercise. I vary that given their needs and mental state and combine that with settling training.

I