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@coreopsis Yup, that makes total sense. My dog loves to go get the bird, and he's a pleaser, so he likes to bring it generally to me. Giving it up, however, is hard for him. We don't get into tug-o-wars, but if I wanted to trial or hunt test, he'd need to be FFd. "Leave it" works for a pair of...

@davecb Force fetch, I believe, since predisposition to retrieve is genetic and can be bred for. My dog has a really good natural retrieve (though if he didn't I wouldn't FF him anyway -- I don't trial nor do I mind walking over to pick up a bird). As you say, it's a common thing to FF even dogs...

@donwetzel I can only tell you my experience, but maybe it is useful: my dog rings a bell on the door to go out. If I don't immediately respond (like when I know he's just bored and want to go out), he'll sit by the door and wait. If I am calling his bluff, sometimes I don't respond and...

@noah0135 Oh wonderful! Beautiful dogs. You’ll note that I didn’t say “no prey drive” but “not difficult to harness prey drive.” I was comparing them to, say, a well bred GWP etc. Since the OP never provided an example: are you aware of anyone training long ranging pointers (say those GWPs)...

@airamnire I get that this isn't your schtick, but this is not an example of what I am asking for. This person's dogs are Springer Spaniels. Lovely dogs they are, but they are neither pointers, nor are they dogs known for difficult to harness prey drive. They are specifically bred to work very...

@airamnire What I see in those photos are dogs that are of bird dog breeds that are being trained (presumably using r+). That, of course, is totally possible. I taught my dog to sit (along with most of his other basic obedience) using r+ methods. What I am asking is for examples of someone...

@maskirovka Me too! I have not been able to find anything that specifically addresses history though. It’s basically either old methodology books or reading the early 00s posts on bird dog forums.

@bitcoin I recently learned that they'd actually shoot them with number nine shot for creeping on a whoa command. The idea was that if you had to shoot the dog a couple times and it died, the problem was still solved.

@seets You should figure out why your dog is barking. Or, honestly (and this is from someone who uses an e-collar extensively with my dog) you should probably find another home for the dog. I am not calling you cruel, but your post seems to indicate you don't care much about the dog, and...

@coreopsis Also swinging by the ears, I hear. That was def my point.

@andy2014 My theory is that those people think something like "well they hunted before ecollars, so it's possible." Those folks are either young or just not aware of the history of bird dog training: as we know, ecollars were the humane alternative to older, much more sinister, methodologies...

@johnc101 I have no substantive comment on your plan, but: if you're not aware, most dogs find the buzzer on an ecollar startling and more aversive than the stim at low to moderate levels. If you don't believe in "correction style training" you probably ought to skip the vibrate option on your plan.

@airamnire Risking committing the sin of answering a question with a question: I use an ecollar with my dog while bird hunting. He has a command that means “turn” — ie he has gone too far in front of me, and I want him to start heading back my way to check in. This is different than a formal...